Reorganization of the Football league coming 2019/20

19 May 2016, 17:15

5 divisions of 20 so will the Conference now be brought into the main FL?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36335384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No relegation out of the FL in 18/19
Relegation from the Football League would be scrapped in the 2018-19 season before the restructure for the following season.

Celtic and Rangers?

Shade · 19 May 2016, 17:22

Just saw this and was going to post it. God knows how they'd sort it out, 8 demotion places from Championship, L1 and L2 with 8 up from the VNL into the new League 3? I have to say, having just got promotion back to the League, this annoys me a bit, even if it won't happen for 3 or so years, if it's voted in next summer. I'm sure they're only doing it because the likes of Tranmere, Wrexham and moneybags like Eastleigh and FGR are currently outside the Football League divisions and some of them will still be languishing there in 2019.

Relegation from football league scrapped that season, but you'd still be relegated to League 3, and just as far away from playing big clubs as if you were in the VNL.

19 May 2016, 17:27

This sounds like insanity, what are they hoping to gain here other than potentially regionalising the bottom three divisions?

This cannot be allowed to happen.

Shade · 19 May 2016, 17:30

If you look at Si's thread, there's a better explanation posted on the League's website. I'm not convinced though, at this early stage.

Artemis · 19 May 2016, 18:17

Seems to be a recognition - at long last - that there are professional clubs outside the FL, and an attempt to bring them into the fold. The one major point that could throw a spanner in the works is the loss of four home games per club. At the lower reaches, where gate money is the main source of income, a challenge for the clubs, particularly with bigger squads needed because of the transfer window rules. One thing does seem odd - why would the Premier League need to agree in principle to this. Its got bugger all to do with them. Do the FL have to agree in principle or in practice to any of their money making schemes - don't think so!

London Exile · 19 May 2016, 18:38

I think the idea of a 20 team league is good but the loss of 4 home games and associated revenue needs to be overcome. Perhaps an expanded football league trophy could help fill this void

EDIT - having now read Si's post with the FL statement, an expanded FL trophy format is proposed to fill the fixture gap.

baggy89 · 19 May 2016, 19:22

Ralph wrote:Celtic and Rangers?

Rangers were liquidated in 2012.

While it would be nice to get rid of the one half of the old firm still in existence and the new club pretending to be the same club as the old club. I can't see it. It may suit the Glasgow media's agenda of "you's canna survive without us by'raway big man but" "so give us what we want."
It has been proved that Scottish football is more interesting without one half of the bigots in the top league, attendances are up everywhere (bar you know who x2).
English football doesn't need them and neither does Scottish football. The sooner they get that into their thick bigoted, whatever part of the body houses the brain in sub-human primates, the better. And if this re-organisation of English league structure helps ram that home I'm all for it.

I think the main move to this is, the money available in English football is such that it can easily support 100 professional clubs. We've seen it this season. The danger with that is it then creates a gap that the likes of Braintree , Dover etc. cannot get over.

Then again in regards to both the above points, football is no longer game of the people merely a play thing for rich folk.

longmover · 19 May 2016, 20:51

interesting comment from a pompey fan (from bbc website)

"It would mean 4 less home games a year - not 3 BBC!! As a Pompey fan that would mean 64,000 paying fans less a season. This is UEFA greed and their plans to play qualifying rounds of the Champions League on different week day nights. Taking us for mugs again. Forget it. No one wants to watch Kiev versus Bordeaux anyway.. (they must be panicking as Ronaldo & Messi get ever near to retirement)"

Si Robin · 20 May 2016, 06:43

I think the biggest concern I've read on the whole thing is that this may give rise to the question of Premier League B teams in the Football League again.

Reliant Robin · 20 May 2016, 08:07

How long have people been saying the top 8 or so teams in the Vanarama are at least as good as the lower half teams in League 2? Everyone (apart from THE Cheltenham !!) knows how difficult it is to get out of Vanarama - unless you get relegated, so this will provide a more stable platform for teams that are non-league with full time professionals. It will probably mean that more players will become full time professionals which can only be good for the game more generally, as it allows for those who were not picked up as youngsters, and other late developers to shine such as the Jamie Vardy's of this world. With more full time professionals at the lowest level of the football league, it might even help with the overall standard of football too. For these reasons I would be in favour.

theidlerich · 20 May 2016, 08:16

Still pondering over the many ramifications of this potential move. What should happen though , if it goes ahead, is a more equable distribution of the income throughout the leagues of the cash generated from TV. [Huge squeals from Premier league - so often touted as the best in the world - but in reality about 4th or 5th!!]

Shade · 20 May 2016, 10:08

theidlerich wrote:Still pondering over the many ramifications of this potential move. What should happen though , if it goes ahead, is a more equable distribution of the income throughout the leagues of the cash generated from TV. [Huge squeals from Premier league - so often touted as the best in the world - but in reality about 4th or 5th!!]

It is the best to watch. Just look at this season. La Liga - boring posession football, Barca win again, 2/3 the league rubbish. Ligue 1 - over ridiculously early. Seria A - half empty stadiums. Bundesliga - only Bayern were ever going to win it. Premier League - Leicester win, Villa & Newcastle down.

Shade · 20 May 2016, 10:11

Reliant Robin wrote:How long have people been saying the top 8 or so teams in the Vanarama are at least as good as the lower half teams in League 2? Everyone

This is what i'm most annoyed about, really, along with 4 less home games to watch. They may be as good, but they haven't earned the right to promotion like, for example, we, Grimsby, Luton, etc, have.

They say it's all to cut down on fixture congestion, but then they're on about playing extra games in the JPT. WTF?!

Is the system broken? Does it need fixing?

20 May 2016, 10:19

That's it, they haven't earned the right to be in the football league. My thoughts exactly

20 May 2016, 11:43

I am struggling to see any real benefit to us from this proposal especially if it ends up we are league five (based on crowds I'm assuming we would be lower league four so it's possible!

Old Coventrian · 20 May 2016, 16:43

Never mind the loss of gate receipts from 4 fewer home games (and for many clubs 'dropping' a division I would have thought lower crowds) I'm also wondering what impact this will have on sponsorship deals. Fewer games means less brand exposure, so surely lower sponsorship deals? Loss of match related sponsorship and reduced hospitality opportunities as well?

Can't see how this is supposed to improve the quality of English players either.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 20 May 2016, 17:55

Just make sure we are in the top half of the current League One by the end of 2018/19 season then we will be in the new League One when they reorganise.

Then whatever happens in the new League Three would be irrelevant to us. It would also mean three relegations would be needed to take us down to non-league making a return to park footy much less likely thank goodness.

Messrs Paul Baker and Gary Johnson, getting us in to new League One in 2019 is the challenge!

London Exile · 20 May 2016, 17:56

Been thinking a bit more about this and having read lots of different views I'm not so sure about this proposal now.
Currently the 72 FL clubs receive the scraps from the Premier League table but this will dilute a little further with 80 teams and there being an additional division. I've read about regionalisation but that then denies some clubs the opportunity of playing at places like Pompey.

If the FL want to create some more excitement then why not introduce a relegation play off whereby in the championship - 21st v 22nd, L1 - 20th v 21st, L2 - 22nd v 23rd play each other home and away for the last relegation spot?

Maybe the key focus in player development of the premier league youngsters (which I think this proposal is really about) needs to be on a proper reserve league structure and set up. Maybe siphon off some tv money to subsidise every one of the FL and VNL national league teams having a reserve team.

plymrob · 20 May 2016, 18:17

I believe a big percentage of Football League (not Premier?) clubs need to vote in favour. Turkeys and Christmas? There's one man who posts on here who will know for sure...

Voting a club up into the League from non-league?Automatic promotion from the Conference..?. How difficult or long did were these steps...?

Trust in PB - and others like him. There are several other agendas at play with this idea - arguably, none benefiting the lower league/s.

Red Duke · 20 May 2016, 20:07

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Just make sure we are in the top half of the current League One by the end of 2018/19 season then we will be in the new League One when they reorganise.

Then whatever happens in the new League Three would be irrelevant to us. It would also mean three relegations would be needed to take us down to non-league making a return to park footy much less likely thank goodness.

Messrs Paul Baker and Gary Johnson, getting us in to new League One in 2019 is the challenge!

My thoughts exactly........

London Exile · 20 May 2016, 20:11

One definite change I'd like to see is 3 up 3 down between L2 and NL.

Red Duke · 20 May 2016, 20:16

London Exile wrote:One definite change I'd like to see is 3 up 3 down between L2 and NL.

That would only be agreed to if the parachute payments were increased.

20 May 2016, 22:38

i wonder if the Prem teams are behind this so their B teams can play rather than having loans all over Europe like Chelsea do

Red Duke · 22 May 2016, 08:21

I read it in the paper yesterday that the Premier League could be forced to pay an additional £22 million every year to the Football League for the introduction of a new fifth tier to cover the loss of match day revenue going from 23 games to 19.

22 May 2016, 10:07

The problem is Duke we will likely end up in the new league four, perhaps even league five if we have a bad season so I doubt that much of that money would find it's way down that far.

Also I am not a fan of three up three down into non-league it devalues the prestige of winning that promotion.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 22 May 2016, 11:02

League four or five? How many divisions do you think they are adding.

We have league two, they will add a league three. Let's be ambitious and embrace the new format and target the new League One.

Three divisions above non-league and only two off the Prem. Be a big step for CTFC.

Shade · 22 May 2016, 15:32

I heard Mark Clemmit say earlier that 65 of the 72 FL clubs have to vote for it for it to happen, so I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of it going ahead, even with the FL having a year to try and talk them round.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 22 May 2016, 15:47

Shade wrote:I heard Mark Clemmit say earlier that 65 of the 72 FL clubs have to vote for it for it to happen, so I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of it going ahead, even with the FL having a year to try and talk them round.

Unless of course they think it is a good idea.

As fans we are not party to business decisions and accounting books at FL clubs and are more influenced by tradition and a gut reaction to change it.

What this comes down to I think is that for 60 clubs the proposals put an extra buffer between them and non-league, and for the bottom twelve in L2 who form the new L3, reassurance that if they do go down it will be easier to come straight back up as the Conference will have lost it's eight best teams.

And for some clubs, having fewer midweek away matches and fewer home matches clashing with Champs League may not be too damaging as costs are reduced and more fans may come to other games. In L2 and L3 this is likely to benefit clubs with smaller gates who have less to lose and the same to gain as clubs with bigger crowds.

I can see it being passed.

22 May 2016, 16:39

Who wants to end up in league five with Accrington, Eastleigh, FGR, Barnet and lots of other clubs with one man and his dog? It's an awful idea RCS, I cannot fathom how anyone could see this as a good thing.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 22 May 2016, 17:10

Robin wrote:Who wants to end up in league five with Accrington, Eastleigh, FGR, Barnet and lots of other clubs with one man and his dog? It's an awful idea RCS, I cannot fathom how anyone could see this as a good thing.

League Three.

Who would want to end up there? No one obviously as no team ever wants to get relegated.

However, if a team finishes bottom in League Two I suspect they would rather stay in the Football League playing Barnet, Eastleigh and FGR in League Three than go into non-league and playing Boreham Wood, Guiseley and Sutton.

Plus, if Barnet and Accrington are in League Three and CTFC are in League Two then we won't need to play them.

Way I see it is that having an extra buffer between us an non-league is a good thing, and having fewer teams to beat to get into the Championship is better for CTFC. It is League One and Championship where I want CTFC to be.

Shade · 23 May 2016, 10:41

Well I've only heard noise from Accrington and Bradford's chairmen/vice-chairmen and they have both stated they think it's a stupid idea. Which is why I said clubs will need talking round.

Old Coventrian · 23 May 2016, 19:30

The proposals do not seem to address the non-league pyramid below the new L3. There's been suggestions today that 1) it should be regional, and 2) L2/3 should be same level but regional (L2 North and South)!

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 23 May 2016, 20:02

Park footy not our concern.