Decision Day?

[Artemis]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting points about the impact of PPG vs current placings on both Wycombe at the upper end of L1 and Macc at the lower end of L2.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Wycombe leaping up from 8th to promotion is only it a flat unweighted PPG was used. If you use home and away PPG applied to the remaining home and away fixtures then they wouldn’t.

Re: Macc, I don’t see there is any grounds to dock them the two extra points at the end of the season as they won’t have broken more rules.

[Hubert Parry]

I doubt there will be a decision as to promotion or relegation until next week at the very earliest. This could get very messy.

[Artemis]

Wycombe leaping up from 8th to promotion is only it a flat unweighted PPG was used. If you use home and away PPG applied to the remaining home and away fixtures then they wouldn’t.

Re: Macc, I don’t see there is any grounds to dock them the two extra points at the end of the season as they won’t have broken more rules.

That shows the sensitivity of the choice facing the clubs. Who would go up if home away weighted PPG was applied?

I also doubt Macc would be deducted the additional two points.

As Hubert says on another post, this could get very messy.

[Hubert Parry]

The latest post (from Gloucestershire Live) on the subject suggests that the playoffs could still take place.

[Ihearye]

The latest post (from Gloucestershire Live) on the subject suggests that the playoffs could still take place.

Strange decision that would be. $ clubs would have to unfurlogh their players for a number of weeks (3 ?) pay behind closed doors, but still have to pay full wages etc. Then I guess re-furlough. Or if this decidion is made, do you un-furlough straight away, in order to get the players in and get them fit. Adding an even greater financial hit.
It makes little sense to work out auto promotion using an algorithim, but take a different position for the last spot.

[ThelmaChen]

The latest post (from Gloucestershire Live) on the subject suggests that the playoffs could still take place.

Strange decision that would be. $ clubs would have to unfurlogh their players for a number of weeks (3 ?) pay behind closed doors, but still have to pay full wages etc. Then I guess re-furlough. Or if this decidion is made, do you un-furlough straight away, in order to get the players in and get them fit. Adding an even greater financial hit.
It makes little sense to work out auto promotion using an algorithim, but take a different position for the last spot.

And what would happen if one of the players tested positive for the virus?

[Ihearye]

I guess the same as in any other work place. They go home and isolate. Not too sure why football needs to treat this any differently than any other place of work (?)

[Robin]

Looks like final decision is expected on Friday with points per game in league one and two and they will try to run the play offs. This would mean we would play Colchester over two legs in late June I believe. Then the winner of Exeter V Northampton at a neutral venue (presumably Wembley would not be used).

EFL teams expected to resume training 25th May.

[Robin]

The latest post (from Gloucestershire Live) on the subject suggests that the playoffs could still take place.

Strange decision that would be. $ clubs would have to unfurlogh their players for a number of weeks (3 ?) pay behind closed doors, but still have to pay full wages etc. Then I guess re-furlough. Or if this decidion is made, do you un-furlough straight away, in order to get the players in and get them fit. Adding an even greater financial hit.
It makes little sense to work out auto promotion using an algorithim, but take a different position for the last spot.

Yes, play offs will cost a lot and need to be completed by end of June. What happens if players at one club fall sick? Who pays for the frequent testing that will be needed? Lots of unanswered questions...

[Hubert Parry]

I'm not in favour of continuing with the playoffs. They are already a bit of a lottery but there could be some farcical results given the inevitable lack of match sharpness that all teams will have. It is unlikely that any of the teams will have the benefit of a friendly to prepare. I'm not convinced this is any more of an equitable option than using the PPG model, but it does carry significantly greater health risks.

[Robin]

Agree Hubert but I suspect clubs (in fear of missing out on promotion like Exeter, Northampton, Colchester) will push for this.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I'm not in favour of continuing with the playoffs. They are already a bit of a lottery but there could be some farcical results given the inevitable lack of match sharpness that all teams will have. It is unlikely that any of the teams will have the benefit of a friendly to prepare. I'm not convinced this is any more of an equitable option than using the PPG model, but it does carry significantly greater health risks.

Gobby chairman like at Peterborough, Fleetwood, Northampton will tell you it is more equitable because it keeps them in the hunt.

Re fitness, it could work in our favour. It has been clear all season that Duff’s Premier League training experience has given us a fitness edge. Quite a few games I have seen where we really look a class above the opponents in the last 10-15 mins, after the previous 75-80 being much tighter. That must be down to fitness. Hopefully it means if a farce of a play off does happen then our players have better residual fitness, have been given better advice on how to maintain it during isolation, and have better methods to sharpen up.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Looks like final decision is expected on Friday with points per game in league one and two and they will try to run the play offs. This would mean we would play Colchester over two legs in late June I believe. Then the winner of Exeter V Northampton at a neutral venue (presumably Wembley would not be used).

EFL teams expected to resume training 25th May.

Points per game sees us move to 4th. So do Colchester drop from current 6th to 7th?

I assume Vale don’t sneak in to top seven on weighted PPG?

[Robin]

OK so we play Northampton, that was my mistake but still a lot of questions on the logistics of all of this. For example Exeter play Colchester with hotels closed will they travel there and back same day?

[Artemis]

I guess the same as in any other work place. They go home and isolate. Not too sure why football needs to treat this any differently than any other place of work (?)

Now i know the govt's guidance isn't exactly crystal clear, but given the (belated) test & trace approach, I would have thought those in contract with an infection should isolate too. 7 days based on current guidance. I assume that given the nature of football, a positive test would mean the other players in the squad also then isolating.

Its also quite possible that the opposition club and / or players don't now want to play the match because of known infection in the other club. Are the club forced to play through fear of forfeit, or is the tie awarded to them because of the infection in the opposition?

And then there is the duty of care that the club has for its players.
Can players choose to not play if they have dependants in high risk groups?
The whole proposals seems fraught with difficulty for marginal gain. But then perhaps Sky need something to fill their schedules.

[Ihearye]

I guess the same as in any other work place. They go home and isolate. Not too sure why football needs to treat this any differently than any other place of work (?)

Now i know the govt's guidance isn't exactly crystal clear, but given the (belated) test & trace approach, I would have thought those in contract with an infection should isolate too. 7 days based on current guidance. I assume that given the nature of football, a positive test would mean the other players in the squad also then isolating.

Its also quite possible that the opposition club and / or players don't now want to play the match because of known infection in the other club. Are the club forced to play through fear of forfeit, or is the tie awarded to them because of the infection in the opposition?

And then there is the duty of care that the club has for its players.
Can players choose to not play if they have dependants in high risk groups?
The whole proposals seems fraught with difficulty for marginal gain. But then perhaps Sky need something to fill their schedules.

Take your point and have no idea how, once track and trace is in operation. How they will apply that to the workplace setting. It could easily see large swathes of a work plce absent for the isolation period. Given person A passes it to person B who then passes etc etc. The clubs duty of care is no more or less than any other employer. The only difference I guess is where a match is allowed to be called off if a number of the players are unable to compete due to illness. My point was that football as an employer is in no differnet a position than any other employer. Agree to attempt the play-offs is a logistical nightmare

[Sprout Picker]

I'm not in favour of continuing with the playoffs. They are already a bit of a lottery but there could be some farcical results given the inevitable lack of match sharpness that all teams will have. It is unlikely that any of the teams will have the benefit of a friendly to prepare. I'm not convinced this is any more of an equitable option than using the PPG model, but it does carry significantly greater health risks.

Agree Sammy. Any concept of trying to run the play-offs seems pretty much unworkable to me and fraught with problems.

[Robin]

My understanding based upon an article which I saw is that players will be tested the day before matches take place. Anyone who tests positive will obviously be sent home for 14 days then re-tested before allowed back to training. If players pass the test (i.e. negative on COVID) then they play the game, not sure I see a need for those to self-isolate given we know they are clean.

The above approach appears fair to me but we need to extend testing to coach drivers, the management team, doctors, referees, linesmen and anyone else in the stadiums.

[Robin]

I guess the same as in any other work place. They go home and isolate. Not too sure why football needs to treat this any differently than any other place of work (?)

Now i know the govt's guidance isn't exactly crystal clear, but given the (belated) test & trace approach, I would have thought those in contract with an infection should isolate too. 7 days based on current guidance. I assume that given the nature of football, a positive test would mean the other players in the squad also then isolating.

Its also quite possible that the opposition club and / or players don't now want to play the match because of known infection in the other club. Are the club forced to play through fear of forfeit, or is the tie awarded to them because of the infection in the opposition?

And then there is the duty of care that the club has for its players.
Can players choose to not play if they have dependants in high risk groups?
The whole proposals seems fraught with difficulty for marginal gain. But then perhaps Sky need something to fill their schedules.

Take your point and have no idea how, once track and trace is in operation. How they will apply that to the workplace setting. It could easily see large swathes of a work plce absent for the isolation period. Given person A passes it to person B who then passes etc etc. The clubs duty of care is no more or less than any other employer. The only difference I guess is where a match is allowed to be called off if a number of the players are unable to compete due to illness. My point was that football as an employer is in no differnet a position than any other employer. Agree to attempt the play-offs is a logistical nightmare

Agree it's a nightmare for two reasons a) funding and b) the sheer amount of people who need to be tested. With funding I do think clubs could put teams out with a degree of safety but it's all the other people they would come into contact with which become the point of weakness. For example referees, linesman, kitmen, mgmt teams, coach drivers, lodging staff, do they also test habitual family members?

[Robin]

Regarding Test, Trace, Isolate my lamen understanding is simply once you test positive you stay home. A person(s) then visits your house and tests everyone living with you, you are then asked to trace who you have come in close contact with and they are contacted and tested accordingly. It's a huge operation logistically.

[asl]

Regarding Test, Trace, Isolate

Thank goodness they decided to do it in that order...

[Artemis]

I guess the same as in any other work place. They go home and isolate. Not too sure why football needs to treat this any differently than any other place of work (?)

Now i know the govt's guidance isn't exactly crystal clear, but given the (belated) test & trace approach, I would have thought those in contract with an infection should isolate too. 7 days based on current guidance. I assume that given the nature of football, a positive test would mean the other players in the squad also then isolating.

Its also quite possible that the opposition club and / or players don't now want to play the match because of known infection in the other club. Are the club forced to play through fear of forfeit, or is the tie awarded to them because of the infection in the opposition?

And then there is the duty of care that the club has for its players.
Can players choose to not play if they have dependants in high risk groups?
The whole proposals seems fraught with difficulty for marginal gain. But then perhaps Sky need something to fill their schedules.

Take your point and have no idea how, once track and trace is in operation. How they will apply that to the workplace setting. It could easily see large swathes of a work plce absent for the isolation period. Given person A passes it to person B who then passes etc etc. The clubs duty of care is no more or less than any other employer. The only difference I guess is where a match is allowed to be called off if a number of the players are unable to compete due to illness. My point was that football as an employer is in no differnet a position than any other employer. Agree to attempt the play-offs is a logistical nightmare

In terms of the law, yes, football clubs are exactly the same as most other employers.

But some workplaces can be better adapted and operate more easily with social distancing and "COVID safety", and therefore it is easier for the employer to discharge their duty of care.
A football club seems to me to be one of those places that can't be adapted - certainly not on match days.

For clubs and for many other workplaces where social distancing is not possible and protective gear is not available, the challenges will be the same. What if an employee isn't satisfied with working conditions re: social distancing or protective equipment, and / or has vulnerable people living with them? Can they refuse to go to work? Can their employer discipline them? Can an employer be made to put measures in place? None of this has been tested, and once again, we see the govt shooting from the hip, without working this kind of issues out, or if they have, not telling anyone, expecting employers to work it out for themselves, and hope for the best.

Anyway, I think we're agreeing that the play-offs are a daft idea.

[Artemis]

Regarding Test, Trace, Isolate my lamen understanding is simply once you test positive you stay home. A person(s) then visits your house and tests everyone living with you, you are then asked to trace who you have come in close contact with and they are contacted and tested accordingly. It's a huge operation logistically.

If you have symptoms, stay at home, and stay there until you've been tested and have a negative result. Don't wait to be tested until staying home. By their very nature, these types of diagnostic tests take days to come back with a result. By which time, you've probably spread it.

[Artemis]

Actually, play-offs might be possible if the games (single semi-final and final) were played at a neutral venue over the course of a few days, with medical facilities on hand, strict isolation processes in place and all the clubs players, staff, refs, cameramen staying in a bubble for a few days. With all of them having individually isolated for a period of 14 days without symptoms.

But again, horrendously difficult logistics. Maybe its worth it for the championship where the commercials could make it worthwhile, but for L1 and L2? Really?

[Robin]

The Premiership reportedly paid £4million for test kits, labs/medics to administer tests in order to finish their season. Clearly the play offs will not cost as much but even if it's 10% where is that funding coming from?

Also as I understand it the tests provide results same/next day versus general public who need to send off to a lab and wait their turn so again there must be a cost to this fast track service.

[Ihearye]

Making playing any particular player being dependent on a negative test (as per Robin's description), would seem illogical, given the delays between testing and getting the results. NHS Medics, get their results in approx 2 days, with 'non-essential' taking longer than that. Testing the day before or a couple of days before would probably be meaningless

[little mo]

Like Ben Tozer said in interview last week. How can you socially distance safely at football at things like corners and free kicks, everyone with arms round each other holding on, and everyone covered in sweat. No not safe. I don't think we will see football again this season at least.

[Artemis]

The tests look for viral genetic material in the swab. That means isolating the DNA from the sample, replicating and sequencing it, then analysing the sequence for specific markers, in process called PCR. That and the time to get the test to the lab takes at least 2 days.

[Ihearye]

The tests look for viral genetic material in the swab. That means isolating the DNA from the sample, replicating and sequencing it, then analysing the sequence for specific markers, in process called PCR. That and the time to get the test to the lab takes at least 2 days.

indeed, as per my comment the NHS is turning round medical staff tests in two days. My daughter is on test number 3 and is still of the opinion it rivals child birth LOL.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Does anyone know of the L1 clubs met again yesterday?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Some self interest in the Championship....Hull who are plummeting like a stone to relegation say the season should be voided. Shameless.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -be-voided" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Benctfc]

Seems crazy to me that a team may be promoted based of 3 games where all clubs going into it wont have played for months and have no match fitness. Also teams will be missing key players I've seen May and Tozer say they might not play that's arguably our two best players gone already. It will be a complete lottery. It makes more sense to base it off the majority of the season we completed and either promote the top 4 or even just promote the top 3 and have 1 less come down from league 1 even if we miss out.

Financially and health wise these playoffs make no sense and shouldn't be going ahead.