Cheltenham Town v Bromley

[Shade]

Reckon Flynn is hanging by a thread after that.

Clueless football. Baffling tactics. A mid-table squad propping up the entire league.

Flynn is basically back where he was post-Swindon last autumn. A loss at home to Barnet on Saturday and I think his position will be untenable. He was jesting about the Cardiff game meaning he’ll he first home afterwards. A very real chance he’ll be watching it on tv.

Can't see Flynn being sacked unless the takeover is complete. And I'd be surprised if he isn't given at least a few games after that - unless we are truly dreadful, losing more by 4's and 5's, until then.

Tonight, at times we were awful but there were a few really good chances and I've no idea what the penalty was actually for. On another night, it could have been 2-1 to us, in all honesty. Another night, with a different manager, maybe...

[Shade]

Also, what do we reckon re the formation? Was he playing 3-4-1-2 before Bennett got injured in the warm up, or did he bottle it once his captain fantastic couldn't play and revert to the 3 because he doesn't trust Mazionis and Wilson as a pair, essentially throwing any pre-match prep away? The way we started, full under the pump for 20 mins or so, it certainly felt like the latter...but then we always start c!#p.

[Benny Profane]

......not entirely sure i was watching the same game then. Don't get me wrong, first 20 minutes they battered us; 0-3 wouldn't have flattered them at all. But we stuck at it, played some decent stuff on spells, scored a good goal, & ultimately the only thing that separated the sides was a (very) soft penalty. Archer blows hot & cold which explains why nobody's come in for him (& if they do it won't be big bucks). It remains baffling, however, how Thomas' clause remains untriggered . He's a class act & we will be very ,very lucky if he's here on September 1st. But honestly, I saw green shoots there tonight. And also, do we really think there's a managerial magician out there who would want a job at one of the lowest wage budgets in the league? Unlikely....if we're still bottom at Christmas different story ,but sacking a manager before the clocks go back seems knee-jerk.

[RobinHood]

The club feels like it’s in limbo at the moment until the takeover goes through. Whilst Flynn can’t really have any complaints if he does go, the current board aren’t going to be making the change as they’ll be seeing that as the new owners prerogative.

[SuperJeff]

Baffling tactics tonight. I like Power, but him at RCB when their strikers are all massive is mental.

Also this persistence of Thomas at LWB is baffling. He did the same at the beginning of last season! Too many out of position.

Harmon played well against Exeter but has played 2 minutes since....what is going on?

Bickerstaff a lot more effective than Miller. But he was the one taken off. Can't understand it.

I'm sure he watches a different game to me!

[Garby74]

Flynn is puddled....baffling 'tactics' baffling selections.....but please please
Motivate your players before Barnet.
If you want to save your job
Im not arsed either way

[Robin]

The club feels paralyzed, can't sign any players and won't sack the Director of Football or the manager despite results warranting it. Our best hope is the takeover is concluded before the weekend and decisions can be made quickly.

Tonight was sadly very predictable, the effort was there in spades, Miller ran his socks off, Young, Kinsella, Thomas all putting their bodies on the line but it was far from being a good team performance. Not sure I am seeing what others are with Bickerstaff, both him and Angol look non-league standard. Not impressed with Joe Day tonight either despite one very good save.

[Ralph]

I don't see Duffo managing anywhere right now. MG to bring him in as soon as the takeover happens?

[Jerry St Clair]

Reckon Flynn is hanging by a thread after that.

Clueless football. Baffling tactics. A mid-table squad propping up the entire league.

Flynn is basically back where he was post-Swindon last autumn. A loss at home to Barnet on Saturday and I think his position will be untenable. He was jesting about the Cardiff game meaning he’ll he first home afterwards. A very real chance he’ll be watching it on tv.

Can't see Flynn being sacked unless the takeover is complete. And I'd be surprised if he isn't given at least a few games after that - unless we are truly dreadful, losing more by 4's and 5's, until then.

Tonight, at times we were awful but there were a few really good chances and I've no idea what the penalty was actually for. On another night, it could have been 2-1 to us, in all honesty. Another night, with a different manager, maybe...

Regardless of my own view (I’m on the fence) I think the facts will do for him on Saturday if we lose.

We’ll have no points and a goal difference more than double most teams in the division with 10% of games gone. These are GJ/Wade levels of August awfulness. I don’t think any manager in the league would survive that.

[HamTown]

Next 4 games:

Barnet (H) 17th in league 2
Cardiff City (A) Caraboa cup, 2nd in league 1
Salford City (A) 4th in league 2
Plymouth Argyle (A) Trophy, 23rd in league 1

Huge pressure to get 3 points vs Barnet.

Think theres zero chance of him being shown the door until after Plymouth but we could have had 3 hidings on the trot by that point.

[Si Robin]

I don't see Duffo managing anywhere right now. MG to bring him in as soon as the takeover happens?

Unless he's absolutely desperate, Michael Duff is not coming back - people need to get this in their heads.

The first 15 mins aside, I thought we were semi-decent last night. Not great by any stretch, but a million times better than Saturday.

Bromley are a good team, they know their strengths and they play up to them. Once they got ahead they battened down the hatches and whilst we breached their line a couple of times, it's evident there is a lack of confidence in the team. When Miller and Bickerstaff were 2 on 1, Bickerstaff has to shoot first time - instead he tries to play it across back to Miller and gives it straight to the defender.

I liked Miller last night - he was having to deal with high balls whilst battling with literal giants and he never gave in at all. Right at the end he's still fighting with their defenders, which is more than can be said for Lee Angol who, again, might as well have not been on the pitch.

Barnet is huge for Flynn on Saturday - lose that and it becomes hard to find any defence for him. We've had a very tough start, but there were shoots of positivity last night. Fail to win on Saturday and those shoots completely disappear.

[Ihearye]

Next 4 games:

Barnet (H) 17th in league 2
Cardiff City (A) Caraboa cup, 2nd in league 1
Salford City (A) 4th in league 2
Plymouth Argyle (A) Trophy, 23rd in league 1

Huge pressure to get 3 points vs Barnet.

Think theres zero chance of him being shown the door until after Plymouth but we could have had 3 hidings on the trot by that point.

I only ever judge on the league form as any of the cups are either a bonus or a hindrance.

[Robin]

Next 4 games:

Barnet (H) 17th in league 2
Cardiff City (A) Caraboa cup, 2nd in league 1
Salford City (A) 4th in league 2
Plymouth Argyle (A) Trophy, 23rd in league 1

Huge pressure to get 3 points vs Barnet.

Think theres zero chance of him being shown the door until after Plymouth but we could have had 3 hidings on the trot by that point.

We cannot wait until that long, the timing of the takeover will have a huge say but something has to change. We either throw money at bringing in more players, get rid of Downes and give Flynn a proper assistant manager or Flynn goes. Right now it's hard not to see all three happening.

[Ihearye]

I don't see Duffo managing anywhere right now. MG to bring him in as soon as the takeover happens?

Unless he's absolutely desperate, Michael Duff is not coming back - people need to get this in their heads.

The first 15 mins aside, I thought we were semi-decent last night. Not great by any stretch, but a million times better than Saturday.

Bromley are a good team, they know their strengths and they play up to them. Once they got ahead they battened down the hatches and whilst we breached their line a couple of times, it's evident there is a lack of confidence in the team. When Miller and Bickerstaff were 2 on 1, Bickerstaff has to shoot first time - instead he tries to play it across back to Miller and gives it straight to the defender.

I liked Miller last night - he was having to deal with high balls whilst battling with literal giants and he never gave in at all. Right at the end he's still fighting with their defenders, which is more than can be said for Lee Angol who, again, might as well have not been on the pitch.

Barnet is huge for Flynn on Saturday - lose that and it becomes hard to find any defence for him. We've had a very tough start, but there were shoots of positivity last night. Fail to win on Saturday and those shoots completely disappear.

Agree re Miller.
As you say, Bromley played to their strengths and that one statement says it all. Do we have any strengths to play to? I don't think we have. JT had a good game last night, but if he didn't, or on an another occasion, someone else didn't, what do we have? Any time we put a ball across the box (not often I know), we never seem to have the players running into the box to take advantage of it. Maybe with a bit of luck (or is it better finishing?), we could have had another couple last night. But that isn't a new phenomena, it has been the theme for a few seasons now. Not too sure if it is lack of confidence or just the lack of nous that we can't afford to buy.
I know I am like a broken record, but being low in the budget stakes never seemed to have this much of an impact on us. That is why I keep questioning the performance of our scouting and recruitment pair and wondering if their wages would not be better spent on the playing budget. Seems a bit much being terse with a couple of players who quite sensibly want to remain a league player, yet nobody every questions where else we are tied up in wages that may not be earning that wage.

[Benctfc]

I'm really torn as I find it difficult to justify removing a manager so early into the season but if you look back to last season I think that is 9 defeats in our last 13 league matches which is an awful run.

Problem i have with Flynn is we are now over 50 matches in an I still have no clue what our game plan is or any patterns of play which points to ineffective coaching. Yes the players wont always perform to a plan but each week we seem to have none. Add in he has never really connected with the fans or felt like a "Cheltenham" manager which hasn't helped his cause. I'm of the opinion he needs a couple of more matches but if he was sacked tomorrow I also wouldn't be unhappy.

I would imagine if he goes we would need a complete clean sweep of coaching staff and without Garlick putting money in this won't happen as we are already at breaking point with the current budget. Apparently Duff was there last night but let's be honest unless he is offered silly money he wont be back here and personally I kind of hope he doesn't as I wouldn't want to risk tarnishing his legacy here similar to Cotterill.

[Ihearye]

Next 4 games:

Barnet (H) 17th in league 2
Cardiff City (A) Caraboa cup, 2nd in league 1
Salford City (A) 4th in league 2
Plymouth Argyle (A) Trophy, 23rd in league 1

Huge pressure to get 3 points vs Barnet.

Think theres zero chance of him being shown the door until after Plymouth but we could have had 3 hidings on the trot by that point.

We cannot wait until that long, the timing of the takeover will have a huge say but something has to change. We either throw money at bringing in more players, get rid of Downes and give Flynn a proper assistant manager or Flynn goes. Right now it's hard to see all three happening.

Agree re Downes, nice lad , but ........... Again, it comes down to who is getting a wage and are they earning it. Maybe behind the scenes he is the driving force, who knows. When it comes down to competing in the league, I think we are past the stage at there being a 'playing budget', there is an overall budget and that should be looked at to see if we can get in who we need, on the playing side

[everyman]

Reckon Flynn is hanging by a thread after that.

Clueless football. Baffling tactics. A mid-table squad propping up the entire league.

Flynn is basically back where he was post-Swindon last autumn. A loss at home to Barnet on Saturday and I think his position will be untenable. He was jesting about the Cardiff game meaning he’ll he first home afterwards. A very real chance he’ll be watching it on tv.

Can't see Flynn being sacked unless the takeover is complete. And I'd be surprised if he isn't given at least a few games after that - unless we are truly dreadful, losing more by 4's and 5's, until then.

Tonight, at times we were awful but there were a few really good chances and I've no idea what the penalty was actually for. On another night, it could have been 2-1 to us, in all honesty. Another night, with a different manager, maybe...

Nobody in the club is in a position to sack or appoint a manager/coach until a new owner is in place !

[longmover]

Anyone else hear the cheer that went up when it was announced Bennet was removed from the starting lineup

Something needs to happen soon as watching this last night the club has a huge whiff of a relegation about it.

Duff has been sacked from his last two roles, obviously I'm not aware if he has applied for any roles since but he can't stay out of football long, imo he hasn't got as chance with a league one club now so I don't think he him coming back is too much of a stretch under a new regime.

[horlickfanclub]

Baffling tactics tonight. I like Power, but him at RCB when their strikers are all massive is mental.

Also this persistence of Thomas at LWB is baffling. He did the same at the beginning of last season! Too many out of position.

Harmon played well against Exeter but has played 2 minutes since....what is going on?

Bickerstaff a lot more effective than Miller. But he was the one taken off. Can't understand it.

I'm sure he watches a different game to me!

I watched the same game as you Superjeff.

[Robin]

I'm really torn as I find it difficult to justify removing a manager so early into the season but if you look back to last season I think that is 9 defeats in our last 13 league matches which is an awful run.

Problem i have with Flynn is we are now over 50 matches in an I still have no clue what our game plan is or any patterns of play which points to ineffective coaching. Yes the players wont always perform to a plan but each week we seem to have none. Add in he has never really connected with the fans or felt like a "Cheltenham" manager which hasn't helped his cause. I'm of the opinion he needs a couple of more matches but if he was sacked tomorrow I also wouldn't be unhappy.

I would imagine if he goes we would need a complete clean sweep of coaching staff and without Garlick putting money in this won't happen as we are already at breaking point with the current budget. Apparently Duff was there last night but let's be honest unless he is offered silly money he wont be back here and personally I kind of hope he doesn't as I wouldn't want to risk tarnishing his legacy here similar to Cotterill.

Flynn is not the only issue here but how many managers survive a run of 9 defeats in 13, that's horrendous. We have a run of fixtures which would allow the next manager some opportunity to try things with this team, as a minimum we need to have someone lined up and not allow Flynn a couple more games then fire him and have nobody in charge whilst we search.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I totally agree with Benctfc’s post re Michael Flynn. I have tried really hard to keep behind him and cut him the slack of having a low budget, suffering injuries to key players etc. etc. However, here we are having the same conversations as we were twelve months ago. What is our best eleven? What is our best formation? Other than relying on pieces of individual brilliance what is our plan to score a goal?

None of those questions seem to be near an answer and my patience is pretty close to running on empty. We were told by fans of Flynn’s former clubs that he is a ‘streaky’ manager, get on a good run and thinks go well however he struggles to turn around a bad run of form and this is exactly what we have seen from him in his time here. His selections, formations, tactics and loyalties to certain players seem to get more and more baffling.

I don’t think anything happens until the takeover is completed which I hope is very soon and not too late, we all saw what a bad start does to you two seasons ago. I am not sure on the figures, but it seems to be very rare that a club gets taken over and the new regime does not bring in their own people so will be interesting to see what happens when that day comes.

With regards to Michael Duff, whilst I agree, in an ideal world he may not want to come back, he may not have much choice at this stage if he wants to relaunch his coaching career as his stock seems to have fallen hugely over the last 18 months. The lure of revitalising Cheltenham with more helpful financial circumstances may prove too much of a temptation? We can dream I suppose!

[Robin]

Next 4 games:

Barnet (H) 17th in league 2
Cardiff City (A) Caraboa cup, 2nd in league 1
Salford City (A) 4th in league 2
Plymouth Argyle (A) Trophy, 23rd in league 1

Huge pressure to get 3 points vs Barnet.

Think theres zero chance of him being shown the door until after Plymouth but we could have had 3 hidings on the trot by that point.

We cannot wait until that long, the timing of the takeover will have a huge say but something has to change. We either throw money at bringing in more players, get rid of Downes and give Flynn a proper assistant manager or Flynn goes. Right now it's hard to see all three happening.

Agree re Downes, nice lad , but ........... Again, it comes down to who is getting a wage and are they earning it. Maybe behind the scenes he is the driving force, who knows. When it comes down to competing in the league, I think we are past the stage at there being a 'playing budget', there is an overall budget and that should be looked at to see if we can get in who we need, on the playing side

Two things last night that nobody has commented on 1. When it was announced that Bennett was injured in the warm up there was very loud celebration in the crowd, I'm sure everyone would have heard that. Criticise him all you like but I've never heard our crowd do that to any player even including the absolute worst ones, which Scott is not despite his flaws. 2 After the game last night Downes tried to come and clap the crowd and got the worst venom of anyone he seemed shocked by that and just turned around and walked off clapping with his head down. I've been critical and don't believe he's the best person, probably also hindering Flynn but as a player he was great for us, so sad to see that.

[Robin]

Anyone else hear the cheer that went up when it was announced Bennet was removed from the starting lineup

Something needs to happen soon as watching this last night the club has a huge whiff of a relegation about it.

Duff has been sacked from his last two roles, obviously I'm not aware if he has applied for any roles since but he can't stay out of football long, imo he hasn't got as chance with a league one club now so I don't think he him coming back is too much of a stretch under a new regime.

Duff was in the running for the Franchise job before Paul Warne got it. I've been skeptical about Duff returning I must admit but it's certainly not impossible especially with an improved budget which is very likely coming and working for someone he knows well. I believe he was there last night so could see it's a team that can be improved so certainly no risk to tarnishing his reputation.

[longmover]

We cannot wait until that long, the timing of the takeover will have a huge say but something has to change. We either throw money at bringing in more players, get rid of Downes and give Flynn a proper assistant manager or Flynn goes. Right now it's hard to see all three happening.

Agree re Downes, nice lad , but ........... Again, it comes down to who is getting a wage and are they earning it. Maybe behind the scenes he is the driving force, who knows. When it comes down to competing in the league, I think we are past the stage at there being a 'playing budget', there is an overall budget and that should be looked at to see if we can get in who we need, on the playing side

Two things last night that nobody has commented on 1. When it was announced that Bennett was injured in the warm up there was very loud celebration in the crowd, I'm sure everyone would have heard that. Criticise him all you like but I've never heard our crowd do that to any player even including the absolute worst ones, which Scott is not despite his flaws. 2 After the game last night Downes tried to come and clap the crowd and got the worst venom of anyone he seemed shocked by that and just turned around and walked off clapping with his head down. I've been critical and don't believe he's the best person, probably also hindering Flynn but as a player he was great for us, so sad to see that.

see my post this morning

[asl]

There's shades of WE here - but, while I believed Wade should have deserved a lot of goodwill following the fact that he took us to our second highest ever league finish the season before, I don't see that MF has the same luxury. Persevering much longer would be utter madness. That said, I believe the majority of the blame falls fairly and squarely with the recruitment: we've shed better players for, imho, worse ones (Bradbury for Cundy; Dulson for Angol; the lady who makes the teas for Broom) - and I still expect to lose two of JT, EA and AJB before the window closes. Last season was always going to be one of consolidation, targeting (and hitting) a mid-table finish - but this season feels like one of "how far can we trim the squad and still finish above the relegation zone?"

[Shade]

Agree re Downes, nice lad , but ........... Again, it comes down to who is getting a wage and are they earning it. Maybe behind the scenes he is the driving force, who knows. When it comes down to competing in the league, I think we are past the stage at there being a 'playing budget', there is an overall budget and that should be looked at to see if we can get in who we need, on the playing side

Two things last night that nobody has commented on 1. When it was announced that Bennett was injured in the warm up there was very loud celebration in the crowd, I'm sure everyone would have heard that. Criticise him all you like but I've never heard our crowd do that to any player even including the absolute worst ones, which Scott is not despite his flaws. 2 After the game last night Downes tried to come and clap the crowd and got the worst venom of anyone he seemed shocked by that and just turned around and walked off clapping with his head down. I've been critical and don't believe he's the best person, probably also hindering Flynn but as a player he was great for us, so sad to see that.

see my post this morning

See my post literally straight after it happened

[Warwickshire Robin]

There's shades of WE here - but, while I believed Wade should have deserved a lot of goodwill following the fact that he took us to our second highest ever league finish the season before, I don't see that MF has the same luxury. Persevering much longer would be utter madness. That said, I believe the majority of the blame falls fairly and squarely with the recruitment: we've shed better players for, imho, worse ones (Bradbury for Cundy; Dulson for Angol; the lady who makes the teas for Broom) - and I still expect to lose two of JT, EA and AJB before the window closes. Last season was always going to be one of consolidation, targeting (and hitting) a mid-table finish - but this season feels like one of "how far can we trim the squad and still finish above the relegation zone?"

I think that this summers recruitment has been completely torpedoed by the fact that none of our 'crown jewels' have been sold therefore severely denting any opportunity to put money back into the squad. This also means the £400k or so black hole we are told has to be made up with player sales each year still remains for this year.

And this will be made even worse if/when any of them get snapped up on deadline day leaving us no time to replace them. On the evidence of this season so far, if we were to lose and not replace JT we are in serious trouble.

[PittvillePundit]

I thought there were positives from last night and arguably a draw would have been a fairer outcome. However we got nothing again and that's a big concern. 4 games, 4 defeats and as we know losing can become a habit.

I've mixed feelings about Flynn's position but it does seem that Barnet will be huge for him.

[Robin]

There's shades of WE here - but, while I believed Wade should have deserved a lot of goodwill following the fact that he took us to our second highest ever league finish the season before, I don't see that MF has the same luxury. Persevering much longer would be utter madness. That said, I believe the majority of the blame falls fairly and squarely with the recruitment: we've shed better players for, imho, worse ones (Bradbury for Cundy; Dulson for Angol; the lady who makes the teas for Broom) - and I still expect to lose two of JT, EA and AJB before the window closes. Last season was always going to be one of consolidation, targeting (and hitting) a mid-table finish - but this season feels like one of "how far can we trim the squad and still finish above the relegation zone?"

I think that this summers recruitment has been completely torpedoed by the fact that none of our 'crown jewels' have been sold therefore severely denting any opportunity to put money back into the squad. This also means the £400k or so black hole we are told has to be made up with player sales each year still remains for this year.

And this will be made even worse if/when any of them get snapped up on deadline day leaving us no time to replace them. On the evidence of this season so far, if we were to lose and not replace JT we are in serious trouble.

I don't believe this is correct or at least it's much more complicated than that. I believe we started the summer expecting them to be sold and that money to be used to cover for what we had spent previously. I believe that Gary Johnson wanted to move players out and to have a higher churn but Mike Flynn wanted to keep as many as possible and add to it. So you had two different people with conflicting visions at a time when money was quite short. This is why Bradbury and Stubbs left despite wanting to stay and why Bennett was played end of last season to trigger an extension because one person handles the contracts and it's not Flynn.

However the situation changed when the takeover was agreed, it seems there have been commitments made to increase the playing budget and that we keep our talents unless an offer which is too good to turn down. The board however will not increase the budget until the takeover is concluded and there has perhaps been some power struggle behind the scenes on the playing side about who we bring in and who we move on. My perception is that Flynn has come out of that victorious and been given more license to bring in players he wants but he still remains relatively handcuffed by the lack of budget and lost out on key targets earlier in the summer due to differing visions within the club.

We are now stuck in limbo knowing there will be an increased playing budget in the future but unable to do anything until then. The board clearly don't want to do anything to rock the boat until the takeover is formally approved by the football league either so those expecting Flynn, Johnson or others to go probably won't get their wish for a little while longer.

From all I have read about Mike Garlick he values stability but he's walking into a situation where something needs to change. I suspect the next days and maybe week or two are going to get worse before they begin to get better, I just hope he has a plan lined up.

[Jim]

I think the Flynn question is moot until the takeover. There’s no way the current board pulls the trigger until Garlick is officially through the door.

I also think he has enough excuses to allow for a few more games (tough start, late transfer business, injuries). However, Bromley highlighted exactly what we’re missing: a coherent plan and style. Their players knew their roles and shape, and they’ve obviously recognised that they can survive (and maybe thrive) in L2 by prioritising height, strength and physicality.

I’m not saying we should copy that approach, but it shows clear joined up thinking. We’re flitting between formations, chucking on strikers when behind with no thought of shape and completely disorganised at set pieces.

Like many here, I’m not calling for heads to roll, but if it’s announced MF and AD have left the club, I won’t be disappointed.

[asl]

Like many here, I’m not calling for heads to roll, but if it’s announced MF and AD have left the club, I won’t be disappointed.

Exactly how I feel. Same with GJ, tbh.

[Robin]

Let me pose this question, let's say the takeover is concluded tomorrow what would you want to happen within the first couple of days?

[asl]

A statement of what the plan is for the rest of the season and how to accomplish it might be achievable in the first couple of days. Anything more is likely unrealistic in such a time frame.

[Ihearye]

A statement of what the plan is for the rest of the season and how to accomplish it might be achievable in the first couple of days. Anything more is likely unrealistic in such a time frame.

I would be happy with a 'first 100 days' plan coupled with an immediate vision of what the staff structure will look like

[longmover]

fans need to see that things are 'happening' realistic deadlines with open and regular comms from the club. I want to see and hear that Garlick is taking control from the off.