Wade Elliot

[longmover]

Will he change his approach to games? The directors were getting some verbal on Saturday (as well as the toxic atmosphere in the ground) which they will want stamped out immediately, I presume there will be a conversation had between him and the board and some action plan in place regarding him and results. How 'flexible' is Elliot and how much does he want this job?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Personally I don’t think a) the Board will want to interfere in on-pitch matters and b) would rather leave that to the people they have employed to make on-pitch decisions on a daily basis than letting a vocal group of fans manage the team.

I also think the Board’s target for Wade will be to stay up. As are currently on course to that with just a few points less than last season (52 vs 56) I don’t think they will see a need to take action yet.

The Board and Club are experienced enough to ignore the weekly reactionary boom and bust cycle of fans’ emotions and focus on the bigger picture and overall task at hand.

Don’t get me wrong, if it looks like we are sliding to relegation and Wade can’t reverse that then the Board will likely act. But whilst we are still on track for of the top four highest finishes in the Club’s history I don’t think they will panic despite getting verbal.

[longmover]

Fair points, we have never been in the relegation zone this season and four points clear, he's doing as expected.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I agree with you there RCS. There are also the financial implications of removing the coaching staff and employing new to consider. As fiscally aware as our board seem to be I doubt the compensation packages involved are in our current spending projections!

I know we seem to be saying this every week at the moment but sort of disregarding Ipswich, unless it is a total humiliation, then the next four games (Wycombe, Charlton, Lincoln & FGR) are critical to the clubs immediate future, especially the two home games. We know if we are to stay up home form and points are critical so we really have to win the next two home games as much for the atmosphere as the points. The atmosphere after Saturday is now pretty toxic and you can imagine the slightest mistake will be pounced on by the majority, leading the players to become more jittery, kill any remaining confidence and so more likely to lose. If the players then dread playing at home frankly we don't stand a chance.

If the next two home games go badly then I think we are doomed without a change but I guess the board will have a decision to make as to whether the better option is relegation and no pay outs but fall in income League 2 football means or get rid and gamble on new management keeping us in League 1 of which there are no guarantees. I don't envy their position!

[Broadway Brian]

Personally I don’t think a) the Board will want to interfere in on-pitch matters and b) would rather leave that to the people they have employed to make on-pitch decisions on a daily basis than letting a vocal group of fans manage the team.

I also think the Board’s target for Wade will be to stay up. As are currently on course to that with just a few points less than last season (52 vs 56) I don’t think they will see a need to take action yet.

The Board and Club are experienced enough to ignore the weekly reactionary boom and bust cycle of fans’ emotions and focus on the bigger picture and overall task at hand.

Don’t get me wrong, if it looks like we are sliding to relegation and Wade can’t reverse that then the Board will likely act. But whilst we are still on track for of the top four highest finishes in the Club’s history I don’t think they will panic despite getting verbal.

Some good points but can we please drop this comparison of points to last season. By itself, it is misleading.

Look at the positions of the teams we’ve played in comparison. That should give you a better perspective of the gap (gulf) between last season and this.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Personally I don’t think a) the Board will want to interfere in on-pitch matters and b) would rather leave that to the people they have employed to make on-pitch decisions on a daily basis than letting a vocal group of fans manage the team.

I also think the Board’s target for Wade will be to stay up. As are currently on course to that with just a few points less than last season (52 vs 56) I don’t think they will see a need to take action yet.

The Board and Club are experienced enough to ignore the weekly reactionary boom and bust cycle of fans’ emotions and focus on the bigger picture and overall task at hand.

Don’t get me wrong, if it looks like we are sliding to relegation and Wade can’t reverse that then the Board will likely act. But whilst we are still on track for of the top four highest finishes in the Club’s history I don’t think they will panic despite getting verbal.

Some good points but can we please drop this comparison of points to last season. By itself, it is misleading.

Look at the positions of the teams we’ve played in comparison. That should give you a better perspective of the gap (gulf) between last season and this.

Hence me also talking about the future…. “if we look like sliding”…”currently on course”…. etc

If we do stay on course for the whole season will you say it is misleading even after 46 games?

[Benhall-Robin]

As pointed out the directors will look to avoid the extra over cost of paying Wade a compensation figure, a new manager will most likely be on a salary greater than the existing salary too.

Can we afford this having just lost out on 41k which could have been used in January.

It's currently a terrible brand of football, we might turn up once every 5 games. At the moment our only hope is that there will be 4 Clubs poorer than us this season.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

As pointed out the directors will look to avoid the extra over cost of paying Wade a compensation figure, a new manager will most likely be on a salary greater than the existing salary too.

Can we afford this having just lost out on 41k which could have been used in January.

It's currently a terrible brand of football, we might turn up once every 5 games. At the moment our only hope is that there will be 4 Clubs poorer than us this season.

The second season is always tough. Survival is the priority and if we stay up on goal difference with a terrible brand of football then that’s mission accomplished.

[longmover]

It's currently a terrible brand of football, we might turn up once every 5 games. At the moment our only hope is that there will be 4 Clubs poorer than us this season.

Unless we get very lucky in the loan market or we obtain the ability to pay the wages for a few good and experienced league one pros then this will be the case every season we are in league one.

[shevates]

To some extent there are some good points made, but our performances are getting worse, the squad cant cope with injuries to key players or suspensions as the squad lacks quality in depth.
I know this shouldnt be taken into consideration as its part of football, but were 4 points better off than we should be as we deserved nothing at Exeter or Port Vale. I honestly hope WE turns it around but as each game goes by to me we get deeper into the mire, hand on heart performances have been poor since the Bolton game, theres nothing encouraging to make me believe differently. COYR & WE

[Mystified]

I still believe in the boys ability to play football. Caleb Taylor and Olayinka have the potential to play at Championship and there are a few others also. It's a young team and they desperately need leadership on and off the field, and that doesn't mean Aflie May gobbing off to every Tom Dick and Harry. It means the leaders demanding the ball to feet, instructing the young players positional play and demanding high standards. I've seen Caleb Taylor collapse on the floor after matches for a few weeks now, his confidence is shot. Who's there for this 19year old? He's our best defender but he desperately needs someone to steady his nerves and take the load off him.
Lets face it we play a 5-4-1 formation (I have eyes, I can see it) and hoof the ball to a lone striker. The whole club (every team within the club) are set up in training to win 1vs1 battles. So what happens when you hoof the ball up to the likes of George Lloyd or any other poor soul who is playing as a soul striker?
Well, our forward can't win against 2 or 3 others, the ball is lost, our midfield is brazenly charging up field to win the 2nd ball but no where near because they're too far away to start and now out of position and the opposition really just have a free run on Caleb and Lewis who are massively overworked (stats show this)
This is down to personnel in midfield, poor team selections, formations and tactics.
For me, I sympathise with the number of injuries the team have had. But other teams have also had injuries.
The players out there are running themselves into the ground every game too, and I sympathise with them.
But my sympathy for Wade is, or more likely has run out. The team selection / tactics / club philosophy at every game has just been wrong and that's down to him.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

To some extent there are some good points made, but our performances are getting worse, the squad cant cope with injuries to key players or suspensions as the squad lacks quality in depth.
I know this shouldnt be taken into consideration as its part of football, but were 4 points better off than we should be as we deserved nothing at Exeter or Port Vale. I honestly hope WE turns it around but as each game goes by to me we get deeper into the mire, hand on heart performances have been poor since the Bolton game, theres nothing encouraging to make me believe differently. COYR & WE

That’s football. There will be games where we feel we deserved more points than we got as well as those where we get less.

Completely agree about squad depth. That is killing us. But not too dissimilar to last season.

The main difference last season was Alfie stayed injury-free. We didn’t do very well without Wright and got annihilated in some games where squad players like Barkers had to feature.

For example, we started Sunderland away with Joseph up front on his own, with Sercombe, Chapman, Thomas and Perry in midfield. Subs who came on were Norton, Barkers and May.

When we beat them we had Etete and May up front with Ramsey, Bonds and Colkett in midfield. Subs who came on were Sercombe, Freestone and Wright (as he came back from injury).

January signings and players being fit were the difference between the two line ups we put out.

Would we have survived last season if May had missed a bunch of games and Wright’s injury been longer lasting? Who knows.

As long as we are above the line (or very close) come January then a couple of good loans can help us stay above.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I honestly hope WE turns it around but as each game goes by to me we get deeper into the mire, hand on heart performances have been poor since the Bolton game, theres nothing encouraging to make me believe differently. COYR & WE

I hope he turns it around too but after Saturday my confidence in that happening is draining away. It was an utter disaster from a management point of view in my opinion. From team selection - one small, less than prolific(!) striker at home to a team 4 divisions below, to tactics - having selected that 11 what was the plan to create opportunities and goals? I couldn't see one (not for the first time this season) and it surely can't have been boot it up in the air to him but that is what happened, to substitutions - which seemed to consist of get as many strikers on the pitch and hope for the best without any thought as to what shape/strategy to use with that personnel on the pitch.

Also, and I don't think I have seen it mentioned elsewhere but by making the substitutions how we did it meant we only used four of the five available subs but because we had made them individually it meant we had used all of our 'substitution events' and could not then bring anyone on when Jacko went down injured so meant we had to play the last 10-15 mins with ten men.

If all of the above had of happened with my village Sunday morning team I would have been questioning whether the manager had been on the lash the night before, but to happen at this level is not good. Massive improvement needed from all concerned in the next few games.

[horlickfanclub]

Fair and reasonably made points in all of the above postings. We all want the best for the club and we have all seen enough to see warning signs while trying to keep a balanced view.

[Robin]

I said it before but everyone could see Saturday was coming apart from Wade, it was exact same against a poor MK Dons team, a poor Morecambe team, a poor Oxford team, and Burton away was just a mirror copy of Saturday albeit with less chances created by us. Comparing points totals really isn't a fair comparison. We've played a lot of the weaker teams so far and all too often we've looked clueless. The only games I think that we've played well is Bolton and the first half against Peterborough (where we showed we are more than capable at this level). I don't know if it's the 7-0 shocker or the collapse against Posh but since around that time we've changed tactically and looked lost despite plenty of effort from the players.

[shevates]

Dont disagree with most of what youve said RCS, but we havnt a player in midfield anywhere near wrights ability, so this season apart from Sercs if we lost a midfielder he's replaced by another player not up to the level required.
This i havnt a clue about, Im just presuming, come Jan you say get good quality loans in. Are good ones available ? Are they already out on season long loans, and if they are about, why didnt we sign them in August ?

Finally team selection, money is lacking at the club and every penny counts for a club of our size. WE team selection for both the Caribou Cup and FA Cup baffled me when there was a chance to play Premiership clubs in future rounds to help finance signings if required. They will be required come Jan unless things change for the good

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Dont disagree with most of what youve said RCS, but we havnt a player in midfield anywhere near wrights ability, so this season apart from Sercs if we lost a midfielder he's replaced by another player not up to the level required.
This i havnt a clue about, Im just presuming, come Jan you say get good quality loans in. Are good ones available ? Are they already out on season long loans, and if they are about, why didnt we sign them in August ?

Finally team selection, money is lacking at the club and every penny counts for a club of our size. WE team selection for both the Caribou Cup and FA Cup baffled me when there was a chance to play Premiership clubs in future rounds to help finance signings if required. They will be required come Jan unless things change for the good

Agree Shev about midfield. Perry and Broom need to be the driving forces there but have been stop-start.

As for January…we gave Moore an incentive to stay, so it’s over to him to come up with the goods in January.

[Fuller]

Dont disagree with most of what youve said RCS, but we havnt a player in midfield anywhere near wrights ability, so this season apart from Sercs if we lost a midfielder he's replaced by another player not up to the level required.
This i havnt a clue about, Im just presuming, come Jan you say get good quality loans in. Are good ones available ? Are they already out on season long loans, and if they are about, why didnt we sign them in August ?

Finally team selection, money is lacking at the club and every penny counts for a club of our size. WE team selection for both the Caribou Cup and FA Cup baffled me when there was a chance to play Premiership clubs in future rounds to help finance signings if required. They will be required come Jan unless things change for the good

Agree Shev about midfield. Perry and Broom need to be the driving forces there but have been stop-start.

As for January…we gave Moore an incentive to stay, so it’s over to him to come up with the goods in January.

Might as well try and sign some of those Alvechurch players. They put in a fantastic shift. They can have some of ours in part exchange…….

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Dont disagree with most of what youve said RCS, but we havnt a player in midfield anywhere near wrights ability, so this season apart from Sercs if we lost a midfielder he's replaced by another player not up to the level required.
This i havnt a clue about, Im just presuming, come Jan you say get good quality loans in. Are good ones available ? Are they already out on season long loans, and if they are about, why didnt we sign them in August ?

Finally team selection, money is lacking at the club and every penny counts for a club of our size. WE team selection for both the Caribou Cup and FA Cup baffled me when there was a chance to play Premiership clubs in future rounds to help finance signings if required. They will be required come Jan unless things change for the good

Agree Shev about midfield. Perry and Broom need to be the driving forces there but have been stop-start.

As for January…we gave Moore an incentive to stay, so it’s over to him to come up with the goods in January.

Might as well try and sign some of those Alvechurch players. They put in a fantastic shift. They can have some of ours in part exchange…….

Lol.

[Broadway Brian]

Personally I don’t think a) the Board will want to interfere in on-pitch matters and b) would rather leave that to the people they have employed to make on-pitch decisions on a daily basis than letting a vocal group of fans manage the team.

I also think the Board’s target for Wade will be to stay up. As are currently on course to that with just a few points less than last season (52 vs 56) I don’t think they will see a need to take action yet.

The Board and Club are experienced enough to ignore the weekly reactionary boom and bust cycle of fans’ emotions and focus on the bigger picture and overall task at hand.

Don’t get me wrong, if it looks like we are sliding to relegation and Wade can’t reverse that then the Board will likely act. But whilst we are still on track for of the top four highest finishes in the Club’s history I don’t think they will panic despite getting verbal.

Some good points but can we please drop this comparison of points to last season. By itself, it is misleading.

Look at the positions of the teams we’ve played in comparison. That should give you a better perspective of the gap (gulf) between last season and this.

Hence me also talking about the future…. “if we look like sliding”…”currently on course”…. etc

If we do stay on course for the whole season will you say it is misleading even after 46 games?

Clearly not, as that would not be misleading. That would be a fair comparison of 2 sets of fixtures, rather than bluntly comparing a set number of fixtures.

But you know that.

[Shade]

The most disappointing thing about Saturday, as far as I'm concerned, is that we were playing a team 96 places below us in the football pyramid and Wade kept the same negative, cautious tactics as usual. If that wasn't down to him then the players need chewing out and told to seriously buck their ideas up. We should have been 2 or 3 up front and taking the game to them. As soon as Alvechurch had any meaningful possession in the game (when we should have already been 2 up, to be fair), the lads seemed to almost kick into that same mentality that we're playing a League One team and need to be super cautious, and our midfield disappeared. How many second balls did we win? Hardly any, because the ball always dropped to an Alvechurch player, because they were set up so much better than we were. And then Taylor loses the ball trying to dribble/pass/something it out of defence because they were pressing and we were half awake. Such basic stuff, we were just all over the place tactically. Inept.

It just feels like there are too many fans against Wade now. I don't see how he is going to get the results to turn this around and get enough fans back onside. The bit of credit he had gained after the Bolton win is well and truly gone. Just feels like a matter of time/games until he goes/is pushed. If I didn't know our board better, I'd think it might swing on this Saturday. If we get destroyed by Ipswich then the board know the following home game is going to be toxic af. Get a decent result or a hard fought defeat, such as the Sheff Weds game, and he might buy himself another game or two.

[Nesty]

I detect WE has lost the dressing room?

[Anteros]

I detect WE has lost the dressing room?

What evidence do you have for that? If true then it is curtains for him

[Si Robin]

I don't see any evidence of that, and the way Alfie was looking to plead his case on Saturday would seem to counteract that assertion as well.

[Andy]

The trouble we have is, assuming there is some funds available, what do we spend it on...paying off current manager and getting a new one, OR on trying to make some needed improvements to some areas of the team.

I cant see us being able to afford both.

[Garby74]

I don't think he's lost the dressing room.
I think the players like him.
He talks about high tempo and wanting to play more on the front foot but we rarely see it.
By all accounts he was a decent player, so that will help him with the players.
Against mk you could see thay were trying a certain pattern to open them up time and time again. But when it didn't work there was no plan b

[PittvillePundit]

It's all so horribly reductive isn't it?

We all want CTFC to do as well as possible but the WE out chants and general toxic atmosphere create a dreadful situation where you can see fear seeping into the players/team meaning that the outcome we want becomes less likely.

You can almost see the confidence ebbing out of, e.g. Caleb Taylor. He's 19 ffs and needs support not a hostile crowd on his and others back.

Whatever one's personal views on WE the priority is surely to support the team?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It's all so horribly reductive isn't it?

We all want CTFC to do as well as possible but the WE out chants and general toxic atmosphere create a dreadful situation where you can see fear seeping into the players/team meaning that the outcome we want becomes less likely.

You can almost see the confidence ebbing out of, e.g. Caleb Taylor. He's 19 ffs and needs support not a hostile crowd on his and others back.

Whatever one's personal views on WE the priority is surely to support the team?

People have been trying to explain such basic principles to boo boys for many many years. Sadly, I don’t think they will ever change their ways even if the atmosphere means no player or normal fan wants to turn up on match day.

[London Exile]

If the players are fully behind WE then hopefully we’ll see a reaction and they’ll be working their socks off to save his job.

I’ve not been to many games this season since giving up the ST but from what I’ve seen, Long isn’t captain material. Maybe we were spoilt with Boyle but Saturday was where you’d be looking at your skipper to rally the troops and personally, I didn’t see that from him.

Back to Wade, I think he’s living on borrowed time now and Ipswich, Wycombe, Charlton and FGR are a tough run of fixtures. A couple of back to back defeats and I can see us going to the Valley without Wade as Head Coach

[Shade]

You can almost see the confidence ebbing out of, e.g. Caleb Taylor. He's 19 ffs and needs support not a hostile crowd on his and others back.

I wonder if this actually bothers players that much? I'm not condoning it at all because I never boo individual players, and I didn't even boo on Saturday, but I mean, for example, Leeds have been getting booed for weeks (apart from at Liverpool), the manager gets booed, on Saturday they were booed off at half time, they were booed when going 3-1 down in the second half, but, same as at Liverpool the weeks before, 19 and 20 year olds dragged them back into the match and they won. It's the kind of thing that, even at 19 and this level, a player who is supposed to be going to the top needs to ignore and rise up against, because he'll have a lot worse in his career than a few hundred Cheltenham fans booing.

[Si Robin]

I don't boo either, but I agree with you Shade. I think players are immune to it. It's when abuse gets personal and you're effing and blinding at someone when they're coming to take a corner that it may effect them. That is then what leads to confrontations.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

You can almost see the confidence ebbing out of, e.g. Caleb Taylor. He's 19 ffs and needs support not a hostile crowd on his and others back.

I wonder if this actually bothers players that much? I'm not condoning it at all because I never boo individual players, and I didn't even boo on Saturday, but I mean, for example, Leeds have been getting booed for weeks (apart from at Liverpool), the manager gets booed, on Saturday they were booed off at half time, they were booed when going 3-1 down in the second half, but, same as at Liverpool the weeks before, 19 and 20 year olds dragged them back into the match and they won. It's the kind of thing that, even at 19 and this level, a player who is supposed to be going to the top needs to ignore and rise up against, because he'll have a lot worse in his career than a few hundred Cheltenham fans booing.

Every player is different. Some may try and prove fans wrong on the pitch and try too hard. Some may play a safe pass rather than a more risky but ambitious one. Some may start getting involved with fans during the match (McAuley telling someone in CF to ‘shut your mouth up there’) or after the match like Alfie on Saturday.

But I am sure it will impact on players. After all, players and fans seem to think positive support can boost and encourage players, so it stands to reason negative support would also register with players.

Even if it just impacts on behaviour, confidence or focus by 5% then that’s a 5% loss of team performance we could do without.

Leeds etc have dedicated sports psychologists who have been working with the players for years with personal profiles and plans for managing this type of thing. And perhaps only those players who are not so easily influenced by fans or media can make it at that very top level.

[Warwickshire Robin]

Some good points but can we please drop this comparison of points to last season. By itself, it is misleading.

Look at the positions of the teams we’ve played in comparison. That should give you a better perspective of the gap (gulf) between last season and this.

Hence me also talking about the future…. “if we look like sliding”…”currently on course”…. etc

If we do stay on course for the whole season will you say it is misleading even after 46 games?

Clearly not, as that would not be misleading. That would be a fair comparison of 2 sets of fixtures, rather than bluntly comparing a set number of fixtures.

But you know that.

Being something of a sad individual and having a bit of time on my hands I though I would try to look at the 16 game comparison between this season and last to see what the 'two points worse off' statement actually means.

My findings, and they are open to correction but I think I am reasonably close are as follows:-
1) As stated we are 2 points worse off (18 pts compared to 20), and we have both scored and conceded 7 goals less.
2) We have played 9 home games and 7 away so far this season. Last season it was 8 at home and 8 away.
3) As the table stands after 16 games the average current league position of the teams we have played is 13.38. Last season the same calculation gave an average league position of 11.63.
4) As an alternative I have calculated the average positions based on the league placing when we actually played them. This season it is 14.93, last season it was 11.47.

So, in summary we are two points worse off, have played one more home game and the schedule has been slightly easier in terms of league position both when we played them and after 16 games.

In the grand scheme of things, no idea what that means overall, everyone can draw their own conclusions but I enjoyed doing the exercise anyway!!

[Si Robin]

Personally I think it means the results aren't much different, the main thing is the entertainment factor.

I honestly think if we lost a couple of games 3-2 rather than 1-0 then the issue wouldn't be as bad.

Edit - this ignores the cup defeat which will always have led to a meltdown

[Warwickshire Robin]

Personally I think it means the results aren't much different, the main thing is the entertainment factor.

I honestly think if we lost a couple of games 3-2 rather than 1-0 then the issue wouldn't be as bad.

Edit - this ignores the cup defeat which will always have led to a meltdown

Yes agree Si. We have failed to score in 7 of our 16 games so far, last season it was 3 and that was Wigan & Sunderland away and Rotherham at home, the three teams that ended up getting promoted. We have yet to score more than 2 in a game.