Catchment Area for CTFC

[1985CTFC]

Tewkesbury 92K
Cheltenham 120K
Gloucester 134K
Stroud 123K

Gloucestershire 654K
Worcestershire 611K
Cotswold 95K

As it is a bit quiet on here today so I thought I might supply a conundrum.
Above are figures of the number of people living in range of CTFC
A lot of people . Getting on towards 1.5 million. Possibly more going slightly further afield.

The conundrum is like the chicken and egg, how do we attract more people to watch CTFC , but can we do that with how the stadium accommodation problem is for all to see,
What do we do first?
Get more in the ground at first or get that stand built asap
I know seats become a premium as numbers increase but there still must be a potential to sell out the seats.
Hence showing the catchment area figures.
Should we do more advertising in those areas to get people to watch our games.

Any ideas or thoughts out there. I know it has been discussed before, but it has been a quiet day!
What was surprising is the number of people in the Stroud area.

Season Competition Matches sold out Spectators Average
22/23 League One 23 0 103,165 4,485

21/23 League One 23 0 97, 492 4,239

We marginally increased attendances this last season
But basically negligeable

[plymrob]

With due respect. Please do send this one going again. We are what we are.

[1985CTFC]

With due respect. Please do send this one going again. We are what we are.

So you are happy to just plod along lacking ambition and eventually end up in Lg2 .
We are what we are because we lack ideas and ambition outside of the playing staff.

What I am trying to point out, is, there is a large audience out there which we don't seem to be tapping into. Why we can't get a 5K average is beyond me.
Do you live in Plymouth? Do you watch CTFC?

[1985CTFC]

With due respect. Please do send this one going again. We are what we are.

Last year 3 out of the bottom 5 in Championship attendances were relegated. Luton bucked the trend
Last year 3 out of the bottom 6 in League 1 attendances were relegated.
See a pattern???? Only a matter of time. Unless we do something.
Luckily at the moment we have Wade

[Si Robin]

Whilst I don't think we should give up trying things, I think there is little that the club haven't tried.

At one point they even tried buses from the neighbouring areas, they've tried reducing prices, they've tried kids for a quid, and even had u11s free with a paying adult.

There are a number of reasons we can't attract more but, in my view, the main reason we struggle is because of the perception of lower league football. Despite the fallacy that this is a rugby county, I'm willing to bet that more people in Gloucestershire watch Premier League football on telly than any other sport live, but mention going to Whaddon Road and people will genuinely question paying around £25 to watch a lower standard of football in the cold.

A player on my u12s football team moved over with his family from London last year - as a club we pay for the whole lot to attend a game at Whaddon Road. He and his family assumed they'd be watching the equivalent of Sunday league football - they didn't even know Cheltenham had a stadium. Given they went to the game in February, and he's been playing with my team since August, and we have 4 season ticket holders in the team, I think that says a lot about the club's profile.

Winning football is the main way to get the crowds in, but League 1 and League 2 is not a novelty anymore. And whilst we are as we are, then short of a miracle promotion, apathy will prevail.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Seats sell out a lot. Not many are going to trek in from Evesham or Malvern to stand given how poor an experience it is.

[1985CTFC]

Seats sell out a lot. Not many are going to trek in from Evesham or Malvern to stand given how poor an experience it is.

Seats don't sell out when we play the smaller clubs. That's the point I am making. This is the area we need to improve on.
Anyway I just thought as it was a quiet day I would get some feedback.
I am new to the forum but not to reading on the forum.
Just feels a little sad at some of the apathy. Not blaming anyone.
How would people feel if 2 American superstars wanted to invest in Cheltenham?

Looking back a long way to previous posts years ago a post from CTFCshire said Attendances are not related to league positions. I beg to differ. Eventually it will catch us up.
Agreed performances on the field have a bearing.

Just say we get promoted this season..we can dream....but lets say we do ...whats the plan?

[Mystified]

I gave my 2 season tickets away twice last year and on both occasions the people who had my tickets said they wouldn’t return (Accrington and Barnsley).
They were pretty unanimous in that Cheltenham would only hoof it and they had better things to do than watch that cr@p.
The irony is you can tell there are some real players in the squad and it was infuriating to watch sometimes, and I hate the little Cheltenham attitude….
So I’m delighted MM has gone and I am actually looking forward to watching some coherent football next season, much in the vein of how they started to perform in the latter part of last season

[plymrob]

I've tried to reply once before - so sorry if soon repeated.

We will never be an above 5000, on the odd occassion, team. That will be a good average given where we have come from and where we are at. In spite, and as stated on here aspriartins for ground improvements and their magical catalystic effect, I, for one, remain a realist. Please let's enjoy what we have and where we are - and continue to be realistic...

From a conversation earlier today - Plymothians, with a max of 16000 home gate in a new league, are wondering if that's enough... Also, and I think it's the old true trueism, players generally do not want to come to the SW clubs. That's their mistake though...!

Let's just be solid CTFC again. COYR.

[Robin]

Whilst I don't think we should give up trying things, I think there is little that the club haven't tried.

At one point they even tried buses from the neighbouring areas, they've tried reducing prices, they've tried kids for a quid, and even had u11s free with a paying adult.

There are a number of reasons we can't attract more but, in my view, the main reason we struggle is because of the perception of lower league football. Despite the fallacy that this is a rugby county, I'm willing to bet that more people in Gloucestershire watch Premier League football on telly than any other sport live, but mention going to Whaddon Road and people will genuinely question paying around £25 to watch a lower standard of football in the cold.

A player on my u12s football team moved over with his family from London last year - as a club we pay for the whole lot to attend a game at Whaddon Road. He and his family assumed they'd be watching the equivalent of Sunday league football - they didn't even know Cheltenham had a stadium. Given they went to the game in February, and he's been playing with my team since August, and we have 4 season ticket holders in the team, I think that says a lot about the club's profile.

Winning football is the main way to get the crowds in, but League 1 and League 2 is not a novelty anymore. And whilst we are as we are, then short of a miracle promotion, apathy will prevail.

This sums things up pretty well in my view. Root of the issue is that the club is poorly percieved, like it or not most people locally prefer to watch footy on TV than to go down Whaddon Road. I think partly because facilities are poor - seats are sorely lacking and I'm confident if we had new 4000 seater main stand our overall average would increase noticeably. Also the general public feel like the club lacks ambition and isn't worthy of their time because sooner or later we will end up back in league two.

I don't believe pricing is the main reason, if we were winning and had more capacity for decent seats I believe people would pay it.

[Robin]

I've tried to reply once before - so sorry if soon repeated.

We will never be an above 5000, on the odd occassion, team. That will be a good average given where we have come from and where we are at. In spite, and as stated on here aspriartins for ground improvements and their magical catalystic effect, I, for one, remain a realist. Please let's enjoy what we have and where we are - and continue to be realistic...

From a conversation earlier today - Plymothians, with a max of 16000 home gate in a new league, are wondering if that's enough... Also, and I think it's the old true trueism, players generally do not want to come to the SW clubs. That's their mistake though...!

Let's just be solid CTFC again. COYR.

To average over 5000 we need to gain an extra 400 through the gate, that's easilly attainable if a) we can give the bigger teams more tickets (i.e. give them the entire Colin Farmer) and b) if we had more seats for our own fans. I would confidently wager if we built a new 4000 seater stand and league position didn't change much our average crowd would be in the 5200/5300 range very similar to what Wycombe get.

As for location I'm not convinced that's a big issue for the simple fact we are one of the most centrally located clubs in the league. Compare us to say Carlisle and Exeter, now you are talking that it's hard to attract players. We are less than an hour from the second second and similar distance from Bristol.

[1985CTFC]

I've tried to reply once before - so sorry if soon repeated.

We will never be an above 5000, on the odd occassion, team. That will be a good average given where we have come from and where we are at. In spite, and as stated on here aspriartins for ground improvements and their magical catalystic effect, I, for one, remain a realist. Please let's enjoy what we have and where we are - and continue to be realistic...

From a conversation earlier today - Plymothians, with a max of 16000 home gate in a new league, are wondering if that's enough... Also, and I think it's the old true trueism, players generally do not want to come to the SW clubs. That's their mistake though...!

Let's just be solid CTFC again. COYR.

I don't see why we are much different to Exeter and Shrewsbury. Size wise with regard to population and profile. It just seems they managed to get their Stadiums in order.
Time to move from Whaddon Road??? To risky?
Exeter Ave 6.85K
Shrews Ave 6.43K

Not saying it happens straight away but just pointing out the potential.
We do seem to be a well run club financially from looking at accounts over the last 5years. But no progress seemingly with regard to the Stadium. That old stand is more or less the same since I first sat in it in 1985. Agreed the other 3 small and tidy but........
But anyway we are getting promoted this year...you heard it here first!!!!

[1985CTFC]

Whilst I don't think we should give up trying things, I think there is little that the club haven't tried.

At one point they even tried buses from the neighbouring areas, they've tried reducing prices, they've tried kids for a quid, and even had u11s free with a paying adult.

There are a number of reasons we can't attract more but, in my view, the main reason we struggle is because of the perception of lower league football. Despite the fallacy that this is a rugby county, I'm willing to bet that more people in Gloucestershire watch Premier League football on telly than any other sport live, but mention going to Whaddon Road and people will genuinely question paying around £25 to watch a lower standard of football in the cold.

A player on my u12s football team moved over with his family from London last year - as a club we pay for the whole lot to attend a game at Whaddon Road. He and his family assumed they'd be watching the equivalent of Sunday league football - they didn't even know Cheltenham had a stadium. Given they went to the game in February, and he's been playing with my team since August, and we have 4 season ticket holders in the team, I think that says a lot about the club's profile.

Winning football is the main way to get the crowds in, but League 1 and League 2 is not a novelty anymore. And whilst we are as we are, then short of a miracle promotion, apathy will prevail.

This sums things up pretty well in my view. Root of the issue is that the club is poorly percieved, like it or not most people locally prefer to watch footy on TV than to go down Whaddon Road. I think partly because facilities are poor - seats are sorely lacking and I'm confident if we had new 4000 seater main stand our overall average would increase noticeably. Also the general public feel like the club lacks ambition and isn't worthy of their time because sooner or later we will end up back in league two.

I don't believe pricing is the main reason, if we were winning and had more capacity for decent seats I believe people would pay it.

Agree totally. But the question is what can we do about it. Never hear about ideas or plans from the board. Maybe they are investigating but not holding my breath.

[1985CTFC]

Had a thought a while ago..far fetched you will say....but was wondering could a ground be started in the car park and like Tottenham build most of it and when 3/4 done move in and smash the old stand away and build the new super stand where it is.
Someone will have to do the measurements though. Now tell me it can't be done.
Plenty more ideas where that came from!! ha

[plymrob]

What Robin says... but maybe living with the old stand (I think it's probably been there for all our years?). I agree, tidy-up approach and pick-up spectator numbers around a stable team the general improvements around the pitch edges...?

As some know. Standing over seats for me.

Whilst typing... Past players... and to save another post. Nathen Tyson trialing for Ilkeston - in support of Leroy Lita up front (non Chelt but well respected)! Some here will like to know... Other football looming...

[asl]

History is a factor. We've only had a league club for one generation. Look at Burnley: smaller catchment than us, FAR more competition from other local clubs - yet they have a generational fan-base who wouldn't dream of supporting anyone else. Kids around Cheltenham want to support City, Chelsea, the scummers, etc.

[Jim]

I'm potentially an example of a demographic the club could target.

I'm a life long Villa fan who has lived in Chelt since 07. I've followed Cheltenham more and more closely over the years, culminating in getting a season ticket.

Perhaps I'm the opposite of other examples given in the thread but I got hooked by coming to games. Even in the NL when, although winning, the standard was pretty dire...

Another driver is disillusionment with Premier League football and the money at the top of the game. It just doesn't do it for me any more, and some of that connection is lost, which is the opposite of what I feel going to Whaddon.

I'm with Robin though that a new main stand is what's needed. Perception alone would see gates increase, I.e. a more modern inviting stadium. Problem is stumping up the £6m it would cost....

[Broadway Brian]

I'm potentially an example of a demographic the club could target.

I'm a life long Villa fan who has lived in Chelt since 07. I've followed Cheltenham more and more closely over the years, culminating in getting a season ticket.

Perhaps I'm the opposite of other examples given in the thread but I got hooked by coming to games. Even in the NL when, although winning, the standard was pretty dire...

Another driver is disillusionment with Premier League football and the money at the top of the game. It just doesn't do it for me any more, and some of that connection is lost, which is the opposite of what I feel going to Whaddon.

I'm with Robin though that a new main stand is what's needed. Perception alone would see gates increase, I.e. a more modern inviting stadium. Problem is stumping up the £6m it would cost....

I share a very similar journey to Jim, with the exception (thankfully) of the Villa

The county boundary always seems an odd one to me. There’s parts of Worcestershire closer to Whaddon than other parts of Glos I’m sure, but there is never any presence in schools in Worcs that I am aware of.

I’ve also seen my other club target year 7s with great success. They had an initiative whereby local kids in year 7 could attend an evening at the club where a couple of players would talk to, they play some games on the training facilities and are given a goody bag at the end. Key thing here - the goody bag contained the home shirt and a couple of tickets to a game. Imagine seeing a few hundred extra shirts in circulation around town and at local grassroots footie training - I’m sure we could work with Errea to sort something.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

History is a factor. We've only had a league club for one generation. Look at Burnley: smaller catchment than us, FAR more competition from other local clubs - yet they have a generational fan-base who wouldn't dream of supporting anyone else. Kids around Cheltenham want to support City, Chelsea, the scummers, etc.

I think we are the reverse of Burnley. They seem to be one of those teams with a weirdly obsessive fan base where football dominates everyone’s lives. Maybe it comes from the industrial heritage or what I don’t know.

Part of it might be that for people who don’t leave Burnley, the football is the only thing going in their lives.

We are the opposite. Some of the town have an interest in football, some of whom have an interest in CTFC, some of whom go to games. Apart from the the 2,000 core die hards that is.

Don’t get me wrong, we are growing the fan base and the longer we stay in league one and if we improve the ground we will keep growing it. But football will never be the thing that defines the whole town or the heart and focus of the whole town like it is in Burnley.

The Exeter and Shrewsbury comparisons were good ones

[Ben3]

The club averaged over 4400 in attendance last season. An amazing achievement that is testament to the board’s ambition and skill. People can moan it’s not higher but who’d have thought it?!?! 4,400 as an average - amazing!

If we average 5,000 in five years the same people will moan about that. Human nature

One issue is that the only people with money to spare is the ‘grey pound’. Everyone else is so squeezed that they can’t afford any leisure pursuits. Whilst we live in the shadow of the boomers it’ll be hard for any services or product to be recalibrated to appeal to under 65s..I wonder how many of our season ticket holders who can shell out this money so easily are aged 60+? Must be an awful lot I’d guess

[Jerry St Clair]

It takes generations to build a large, core support base. Clubs who rise rapidly, like we have, rarely see a correspondingly rapid rise in fans. At least not a sustainable one. Our core support will grow gradually as family allegiances build and support gets passed down the generations, but this takes years and decades.

On catchment, a university did a study on this a few years back. The English club with the largest population catchment is.........Crystal Palace.

Ours is quite big, but you have to remember that the Bristol clubs probably hoover up much of the support in South Gloucestershire, while the Midland clubs will take an awful lot from the areas north of Tewkesbury and, indeed Cheltenham (have you been at Cheltenham station when Villa/Wolves are at home?)

[Robin]

History is a factor. We've only had a league club for one generation. Look at Burnley: smaller catchment than us, FAR more competition from other local clubs - yet they have a generational fan-base who wouldn't dream of supporting anyone else. Kids around Cheltenham want to support City, Chelsea, the scummers, etc.

Good point the amount of Man City shirts you see on kids now is testament to that. When I was young it was Liverpool and Man Utd, you just don't get that in places like Burnely and probably it's much less prevalent in Shrewsbury and Exeter.

[Robin]

I'm potentially an example of a demographic the club could target.

I'm a life long Villa fan who has lived in Chelt since 07. I've followed Cheltenham more and more closely over the years, culminating in getting a season ticket.

Perhaps I'm the opposite of other examples given in the thread but I got hooked by coming to games. Even in the NL when, although winning, the standard was pretty dire...

Another driver is disillusionment with Premier League football and the money at the top of the game. It just doesn't do it for me any more, and some of that connection is lost, which is the opposite of what I feel going to Whaddon.

I'm with Robin though that a new main stand is what's needed. Perception alone would see gates increase, I.e. a more modern inviting stadium. Problem is stumping up the £6m it would cost....

I share a very similar journey to Jim, with the exception (thankfully) of the Villa

The county boundary always seems an odd one to me. There’s parts of Worcestershire closer to Whaddon than other parts of Glos I’m sure, but there is never any presence in schools in Worcs that I am aware of.

I’ve also seen my other club target year 7s with great success. They had an initiative whereby local kids in year 7 could attend an evening at the club where a couple of players would talk to, they play some games on the training facilities and are given a goody bag at the end. Key thing here - the goody bag contained the home shirt and a couple of tickets to a game. Imagine seeing a few hundred extra shirts in circulation around town and at local grassroots footie training - I’m sure we could work with Errea to sort something.

I still can't understand why we don't give a free shirt to the winners of the half time cross bad challenge, small gesture and would make it more meaningful. We could also give scarves to school groups.

[Robin]

The club averaged over 4400 in attendance last season. An amazing achievement that is testament to the board’s ambition and skill. People can moan it’s not higher but who’d have thought it?!?! 4,400 as an average - amazing!

If we average 5,000 in five years the same people will moan about that. Human nature

One issue is that the only people with money to spare is the ‘grey pound’. Everyone else is so squeezed that they can’t afford any leisure pursuits. Whilst we live in the shadow of the boomers it’ll be hard for any services or product to be recalibrated to appeal to under 65s..I wonder how many of our season ticket holders who can shell out this money so easily are aged 60+? Must be an awful lot I’d guess

Not too sure about this take, the club has averaged around 4500 during each of our seasons in league one, the two lower averages occurred in the aftermath of the pandemic (last season) and the relegation season under Martin Allen. There is no real evidence the fan base is growing. Now compare us to Lincoln (who used to average lower crowds than us), Shrewsbury and Exeter, hell even Mansfield, all are growing their crowds or sustaining much bigger ones after a period of growth.

[CKCharlie]

Seats sell out a lot. Not many are going to trek in from Evesham or Malvern to stand given how poor an experience it is.

I trek from Cricklade to stand

Why is it a poor experience in your eyes, be positive what could the club do to improve it?

I have been to Lincoln and Cambridge in the last few seasons and they have a lot of family attractions around the ground before the game. Space as always is a problem at Cheltenham.

On the getting to the ground Cheltenham hasn’t got a park and ride any longer so you have to try and park near the ground. Public transport is a problem if I wanted a bus to Cirencester and Cricklade on a Saturday I would be leaving the ground half way through the second half.

[Si Robin]

Lincoln were averaging between 4,000 and 5,000 in League 2 up until 2008. Then when their form dropped off massively, they didn't average less than 3,500 until relegation. The only time they averaged less than us was when they were in a lower division than us, and even then they've averaged more than us in a couple of those years.

What Lincoln had though was a run to the FA Cup Quarter Final, coupled with winning the National League at the same time. This took over the town and they built on this by making the playoffs in their first season back in the Football League, before going up as Champions again the following season. In the last couple of seasons, their support seems to be beginning to plateau a bit.

Shrewsbury were averaging around 4,000 at the old Gay Meadow and (Covid season aside) have never averaged less than 5,000 at their new ground. They've not averaged less than 6,000 since 2017.

Mansfield does seem to have had a massive jump last season - it'll be intriguing to see what took off there. Unless it was just building on their Playoff Final appearance in 2022.

Exeter seem to have always been about 1,000 more than us dependant upon the leagues we're in.

What I will say though is that your use of average attendances misses one huge factor - larger away attendances. If I recall correctly (and this is off the top of my head) there was 5 or 6 occasions where the full 1,450-1,500 was taken up by away fans - yet only 8 games had more than 5,000 in total. 5 of those were in the last 6 home games of the season. The Exeter and Sheffield Wednesday games seem to have caught the attention of those floaters, and hopefully they'll all be back after great results against Ipswich, FGR and Charlton in our last 3 home games.

As others have said, it's easy to forget that a generation ago we were averaging around 800 a game in the Southern League. That we were averaging 5-6 times that last season is impressive, and the more the club does to entice young fans, the better it will be.

[Jim]

Lincoln were averaging between 4,000 and 5,000 in League 2 up until 2008. Then when their form dropped off massively, they didn't average less than 3,500 until relegation. The only time they averaged less than us was when they were in a lower division than us, and even then they've averaged more than us in a couple of those years.

What Lincoln had though was a run to the FA Cup Quarter Final, coupled with winning the National League at the same time. This took over the town and they built on this by making the playoffs in their first season back in the Football League, before going up as Champions again the following season. In the last couple of seasons, their support seems to be beginning to plateau a bit.

Shrewsbury were averaging around 4,000 at the old Gay Meadow and (Covid season aside) have never averaged less than 5,000 at their new ground. They've not averaged less than 6,000 since 2017.

Mansfield does seem to have had a massive jump last season - it'll be intriguing to see what took off there. Unless it was just building on their Playoff Final appearance in 2022.

Exeter seem to have always been about 1,000 more than us dependant upon the leagues we're in.

What I will say though is that your use of average attendances misses one huge factor - larger away attendances. If I recall correctly (and this is off the top of my head) there was 5 or 6 occasions where the full 1,450-1,500 was taken up by away fans - yet only 8 games had more than 5,000 in total. 5 of those were in the last 6 home games of the season. The Exeter and Sheffield Wednesday games seem to have caught the attention of those floaters, and hopefully they'll all be back after great results against Ipswich, FGR and Charlton in our last 3 home games.

As others have said, it's easy to forget that a generation ago we were averaging around 800 a game in the Southern League. That we were averaging 5-6 times that last season is impressive, and the more the club does to entice young fans, the better it will be.

The Shrewsbury example perhaps adds weight to the idea that a new stand/more seating/better facilities would boost gates.

Success on the pitch is the most obvious way to get more people through the door, which is what happened with Lincoln. If we have an incredible season, playing decent football, and are even flirting with the play-offs come March/April i'd imagine we'll sell out most games (the seating at least). The key for the club is to capitalise on that and put on a matchday experience that will keep people coming back, even if the results aren't as good.

It's maybe surprising the gates were relatively good last season considering some of the dross that was being served up at times. No coincidence that more people were coming when performances picked up at the end of the season.

It will be interesting to monitor at the attendances this year - remember we've already broken the season ticket sales record. The consensus so far is that we're having a good summer, and despite losing Alfie there is some optimism going into the new season. First home game of last season was 4,425 with 1,050 away fans. Chances are Bolton will bring more than that, so I'd expect a 5k gate for the first game. Let's hope we put on a good show.

[1985CTFC]

Lincoln were averaging between 4,000 and 5,000 in League 2 up until 2008. Then when their form dropped off massively, they didn't average less than 3,500 until relegation. The only time they averaged less than us was when they were in a lower division than us, and even then they've averaged more than us in a couple of those years.

What Lincoln had though was a run to the FA Cup Quarter Final, coupled with winning the National League at the same time. This took over the town and they built on this by making the playoffs in their first season back in the Football League, before going up as Champions again the following season. In the last couple of seasons, their support seems to be beginning to plateau a bit.

Shrewsbury were averaging around 4,000 at the old Gay Meadow and (Covid season aside) have never averaged less than 5,000 at their new ground. They've not averaged less than 6,000 since 2017.

Mansfield does seem to have had a massive jump last season - it'll be intriguing to see what took off there. Unless it was just building on their Playoff Final appearance in 2022.

Exeter seem to have always been about 1,000 more than us dependant upon the leagues we're in.

What I will say though is that your use of average attendances misses one huge factor - larger away attendances. If I recall correctly (and this is off the top of my head) there was 5 or 6 occasions where the full 1,450-1,500 was taken up by away fans - yet only 8 games had more than 5,000 in total. 5 of those were in the last 6 home games of the season. The Exeter and Sheffield Wednesday games seem to have caught the attention of those floaters, and hopefully they'll all be back after great results against Ipswich, FGR and Charlton in our last 3 home games.

As others have said, it's easy to forget that a generation ago we were averaging around 800 a game in the Southern League. That we were averaging 5-6 times that last season is impressive, and the more the club does to entice young fans, the better it will be.

As Si says above , look at the figures we really haven't grown attendances recently for what ever reason. They held up by having big teams visit us. This year could be an acid test to see if we kick on. The team have to play their part and as I have mentioned play MORE on the front foot and get people off their seats more. But even that won't make a dramatic increase in the numbers.
Need that new stand.
Can the podcast people get someone from the board to have an in depth discussion explaining what are the problems. What their vision is, any visual plans/models on how they see CTFC in 5 to 10 years time.
I don't like Dale Vince but he has produced a vision and plan for a much smaller club down the M5. How has he done that? WE wouldn't need anything as ambitious. Slightly embarrassing if you ask me. Mind you remains to be seen if it happens. But he has produced the dream and people can see it.
Where is our DREAM
As an added comment, Cheltenham and surrounding areas is quite affluent to many parts of the footballing world so money is not the issue here I think.

[Ihearye]

History is a factor. We've only had a league club for one generation. Look at Burnley: smaller catchment than us, FAR more competition from other local clubs - yet they have a generational fan-base who wouldn't dream of supporting anyone else. Kids around Cheltenham want to support City, Chelsea, the scummers, etc.

I think we are the reverse of Burnley. They seem to be one of those teams with a weirdly obsessive fan base where football dominates everyone’s lives. Maybe it comes from the industrial heritage or what I don’t know.

Part of it might be that for people who don’t leave Burnley, the football is the only thing going in their lives.

We are the opposite. Some of the town have an interest in football, some of whom have an interest in CTFC, some of whom go to games. Apart from the the 2,000 core die hards that is.

Don’t get me wrong, we are growing the fan base and the longer we stay in league one and if we improve the ground we will keep growing it. But football will never be the thing that defines the whole town or the heart and focus of the whole town like it is in Burnley.

The Exeter and Shrewsbury comparisons were good ones

Maybe we need a 'Bank of Dave' down here to invest in us !

[Si Robin]

Lincoln were averaging between 4,000 and 5,000 in League 2 up until 2008. Then when their form dropped off massively, they didn't average less than 3,500 until relegation. The only time they averaged less than us was when they were in a lower division than us, and even then they've averaged more than us in a couple of those years.

What Lincoln had though was a run to the FA Cup Quarter Final, coupled with winning the National League at the same time. This took over the town and they built on this by making the playoffs in their first season back in the Football League, before going up as Champions again the following season. In the last couple of seasons, their support seems to be beginning to plateau a bit.

Shrewsbury were averaging around 4,000 at the old Gay Meadow and (Covid season aside) have never averaged less than 5,000 at their new ground. They've not averaged less than 6,000 since 2017.

Mansfield does seem to have had a massive jump last season - it'll be intriguing to see what took off there. Unless it was just building on their Playoff Final appearance in 2022.

Exeter seem to have always been about 1,000 more than us dependant upon the leagues we're in.

What I will say though is that your use of average attendances misses one huge factor - larger away attendances. If I recall correctly (and this is off the top of my head) there was 5 or 6 occasions where the full 1,450-1,500 was taken up by away fans - yet only 8 games had more than 5,000 in total. 5 of those were in the last 6 home games of the season. The Exeter and Sheffield Wednesday games seem to have caught the attention of those floaters, and hopefully they'll all be back after great results against Ipswich, FGR and Charlton in our last 3 home games.

As others have said, it's easy to forget that a generation ago we were averaging around 800 a game in the Southern League. That we were averaging 5-6 times that last season is impressive, and the more the club does to entice young fans, the better it will be.

As Si says above , look at the figures we really haven't grown attendances recently for what ever reason. They held up by having big teams visit us. This year could be an acid test to see if we kick on. The team have to play their part and as I have mentioned play MORE on the front foot and get people off their seats more. But even that won't make a dramatic increase in the numbers.
Need that new stand.
Can the podcast people get someone from the board to have an in depth discussion explaining what are the problems. What their vision is, any visual plans/models on how they see CTFC in 5 to 10 years time.
I don't like Dale Vince but he has produced a vision and plan for a much smaller club down the M5. How has he done that? WE wouldn't need anything as ambitious. Slightly embarrassing if you ask me. Mind you remains to be seen if it happens. But he has produced the dream and people can see it.
Where is our DREAM
As an added comment, Cheltenham and surrounding areas is quite affluent to many parts of the footballing world so money is not the issue here I think.

Two points here - firstly, Dale Vince's dream has come at an exhorbitant cost that we simply can't sustain (and neither will FGR when he eventually goes).

Secondly - affluence itself might be the issue. Football is a working class sport (it's why the likes of Burnley have it ingrained in their culture) and people don't get rich by throwing money at the black hole that is a lower league football team.

[Ihearye]

The club averaged over 4400 in attendance last season. An amazing achievement that is testament to the board’s ambition and skill. People can moan it’s not higher but who’d have thought it?!?! 4,400 as an average - amazing!

If we average 5,000 in five years the same people will moan about that. Human nature

One issue is that the only people with money to spare is the ‘grey pound’. Everyone else is so squeezed that they can’t afford any leisure pursuits. Whilst we live in the shadow of the boomers it’ll be hard for any services or product to be recalibrated to appeal to under 65s..I wonder how many of our season ticket holders who can shell out this money so easily are aged 60+? Must be an awful lot I’d guess

All a bit of ill thought out 'logic' there. As a 65+ I would love to hear how you believe pensioners are not being squeezed by the current economic climate. Could it be because their £800 a month pension has jumped to the massive amount of £880 allows them to shell out for their ST SO EASILY?? I think you will find that very many of the 60+ season ticket holders, have been season ticket holders for many years and remained so in tougher times than these! I am guessing you are of a generation that thinks 5% interest rates are cataclysmic.
Maybe a bit less condescending about all of us who pull up in our Bentley every Saturday and hand a £50 to the guys at the carpark. What allows me and I would say many other over 65's, to be able to afford a ST is due to the concession rates offered by the club. If they were not available, I know I would have stopped being a ST holder. Instead I would have chosen which matches during the season I could go to. Walk thru town on a weekend evening and tell me the younger folk have no money.

[Herbie53]

Seats sell out a lot. Not many are going to trek in from Evesham or Malvern to stand given how poor an experience it is.

I trek from Cricklade to stand

Why is it a poor experience in your eyes, be positive what could the club do to improve it?

I have been to Lincoln and Cambridge in the last few seasons and they have a lot of family attractions around the ground before the game. Space as always is a problem at Cheltenham.

On the getting to the ground Cheltenham hasn’t got a park and ride any longer so you have to try and park near the ground. Public transport is a problem if I wanted a bus to Cirencester and Cricklade on a Saturday I would be leaving the ground half way through the second half.

The Park and Ride still operates from Arle Court to the Prom. Stagecoach pulled out but Bennetts took over the contract. Me and my lad always walk to the park and ride and jump on, there's often a few away fans on there too.

[Shade]

I think as Robin initially suggested, if we were to get a new main stand with better facilities and seating you can actually tolerate sitting in for more than 5 minutes, and the catering sorted out around the ground, then I think attendances would pretty much immediately jump significantly, unless we're playing dire football at the time. When you look at the difference between some clubs and us, we're the same or better in pretty much every area, except our crappy 1960's non-league main stand. That main stand is the image of the club to a lot of people, I bet.

As some have said above, people have come to watch one match and said they wouldn't go back. Unfortunately, the way things are set up at the moment, if the match is c!#p then that is literally all people have to remember the day by. There is not a lot else going on at the ground to hook them, if they're not already fans of the club.

[Fuller]

Seats sell out a lot. Not many are going to trek in from Evesham or Malvern to stand given how poor an experience it is.

I trek from Cricklade to stand

Why is it a poor experience in your eyes, be positive what could the club do to improve it?

I have been to Lincoln and Cambridge in the last few seasons and they have a lot of family attractions around the ground before the game. Space as always is a problem at Cheltenham.

On the getting to the ground Cheltenham hasn’t got a park and ride any longer so you have to try and park near the ground. Public transport is a problem if I wanted a bus to Cirencester and Cricklade on a Saturday I would be leaving the ground half way through the second half.

The Park and Ride still operates from Arle Court to the Prom. Stagecoach pulled out but Bennetts took over the contract. Me and my lad always walk to the park and ride and jump on, there's often a few away fans on there too.

At one time there was a Park & Ride from the Racecourse to the ground. Think it stopped because there wasn’t enough punters using it?

[Fuller]

I think as Robin initially suggested, if we were to get a new main stand with better facilities and seating you can actually tolerate sitting in for more than 5 minutes, and the catering sorted out around the ground, then I think attendances would pretty much immediately jump significantly, unless we're playing dire football at the time. When you look at the difference between some clubs and us, we're the same or better in pretty much every area, except our crappy 1960's non-league main stand. That main stand is the image of the club to a lot of people, I bet.

As some have said above, people have come to watch one match and said they wouldn't go back. Unfortunately, the way things are set up at the moment, if the match is c!#p then that is literally all people have to remember the day by. There is not a lot else going on at the ground to hook them, if they're not already fans of the club.

Fully agree. For me, whenever I look at that stand it reminds me of being a young lad back in the 1960’s and watching Roger and Our Ronnie.
How the club ever move this forward I’ve no idea, and I’m not sure the Board do either. But I’m hoping I’ll be surprised in my lifetime.