General Election 2024

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ctfc-fan
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Thought it wouldn’t hurt to have a thread!

I’ll start… National Service, yay or nay?

For me I think it’s a yes and hopefully kick some sense into some of the lazy feckers
paperboy
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asl
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I'm not against the idea of national service, tbh. I think it's likely to appeal to the so-called Grey Vote, too. I've worked with a few people from countries with such a scheme (usually, they have to do a minimum period of service before a specific age) and they've all opted to pay a sum to avoid it, instead. In some cases, that's not actually a legal option and is, essentially, a bribe helping to fuel that country's corruption.

Despite the fact that I have voted blue in (almost) every election until the last one, I truly believe this government, from BoJo onwards, has made their party unelectable for a generation. For me, persisting with the Rwanda policy that is as bonkers as it is just plain nasty, is the last straw.
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Shade
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I cba to look into it, but would it be mandatory national service for every 18 year old? If so, it's stupid. If it's just for those who want to take it up voluntarily or those out of work but able, then fine. The only thing I can remember about national service worldwide is that Heung Min Son had to have a couple of months off from Spurs to go back and complete his before he was 27 or 28, iirc, otherwise he would have broken South Korean law.

I know I'm not the only one to say this, but I can't see me voting this time around. They're all absolutely s#!t. And, no matter who gets in, the country won't improve, no matter which policies are employed.
asl
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Labour have made a seismic lurch back to the centre since Corbyn was ousted. The Tories are just heading more and more to the right in order to appease the racist intolerant elements of the population. Unfortunately for them, Reform are already mopping up the remnants of UKIP support so they'll end up making sure Labour get in.

Well done, David Cameron - this is all your feckin' fault, sucking up to UKIP.
paperboy
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asl wrote: 27 May 2024, 14:46 Labour have made a seismic lurch back to the centre since Corbyn was ousted. The Tories are just heading more and more to the right in order to appease the racist intolerant elements of the population. Unfortunately for them, Reform are already mopping up the remnants of UKIP support so they'll end up making sure Labour get in.

Well done, David Cameron - this is all your feckin' fault, sucking up to UKIP.
Lord Cameron get it right please.

AKA Dodgy Dave
asl
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Shocking news about Diane Abbott being de-selected. She's been a Labour MP for thirty-five years - that's two decades. Does half a century sitting in the Commons count for nothing?
ctfc-fan
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asl wrote:Shocking news about Diane Abbott being de-selected. She's been a Labour MP for thirty-five years - that's two decades. Does half a century sitting in the Commons count for nothing?
ImageImage
paperboy
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ctfc-fan wrote: 29 May 2024, 20:35
asl wrote:Shocking news about Diane Abbott being de-selected. She's been a Labour MP for thirty-five years - that's two decades. Does half a century sitting in the Commons count for nothing?
ImageImage
Yes, shocking,
It just doesn't add up does it.
Red Duke
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asl wrote: 29 May 2024, 17:56 Shocking news about Diane Abbott being de-selected. She's been a Labour MP for thirty-five years - that's two decades. Does half a century sitting in the Commons count for nothing?
One of your classic wind-ups ASL! Comparing your numeric skills to hers! :lol: :lol:
asl
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Make sure you vote, today. If you genuinely believe all politicians are the same and you don't want to vote - attend and spoil your ballot with "None of the above". Believe it or not, these are all counted, too.

Whoever you vote for - get out there and vote! Personally, I'd make it compulsory...
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Shade
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asl wrote: 04 Jul 2024, 08:42 Make sure you vote, today. If you genuinely believe all politicians are the same and you don't want to vote - attend and spoil your ballot with "None of the above". Believe it or not, these are all counted, too.

Whoever you vote for - get out there and vote! Personally, I'd make it compulsory...
Making it compulsory just leads to lots of people who have no interest or knowledge in the political situation putting a cross in a random box, or voting for someone "for a laugh", though. If they don't want to vote, that is their decision. I think, for example, Labour getting a huge majority with a very small turnout should still make them think they need to keep on their toes because there are a lot of people out there that didn't vote for them. Compare that to Labour getting in with a huge majority and a huge turnout, they'll think they're invincible for the next 12 years.
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Ihearye
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pertinent given the new Cheltenham MP was / is part of the council. The changes to Central Cross drive (minimal that they are), started on Jan 4th and are still not complete 6 months later. This is the standard of politician we are electing. How depressing.
The Empire State was built in 13 months. Just think in that time, our local politicians could have overseen closing off both ends of Central Cross drive :)
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Malabus
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80% of the British public didn't vote for this Labour Party.

Reform in the the electoral system is critical.
asl
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40% of the British public didn't even vote so they have no right to any opinions, hereafter.

I'm surprised at you, though, Mal: using turnout figures in that way is like admitting that only 25% of the British people voted to leave the EU...
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Ihearye
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asl wrote: 05 Jul 2024, 13:08 40% of the British public didn't even vote so they have no right to any opinions, hereafter.

I'm surprised at you, though, Mal: using turnout figures in that way is like admitting that only 25% of the British people voted to leave the EU...
And even less wanted to stay on :roll: . We have a hard job as a voter when you look at the calibre of people that tend to run for election, national or local. Would much rather pay professionals to do the job
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Malabus
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asl wrote:40% of the British public didn't even vote so they have no right to any opinions, hereafter.

I'm surprised at you, though, Mal: using turnout figures in that way is like admitting that only 25% of the British people voted to leave the EU...
The people who never accepted a 52% win on a 72% turnout are the same people who have accepted they have won even though they got 33% on a 59% turnout.
Red Duke
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Malabus wrote: 05 Jul 2024, 23:47
asl wrote:40% of the British public didn't even vote so they have no right to any opinions, hereafter.

I'm surprised at you, though, Mal: using turnout figures in that way is like admitting that only 25% of the British people voted to leave the EU...
The people who never accepted a 52% win on a 72% turnout are the same people who have accepted they have won even though they got 33% on a 59% turnout.
FPP has been favoured by the Tories as it has enabled them more often than not to stay in power. There was a referendum on Proportional Representation but they didn't support it.

Did you vote in that, Mal? If you didn't you can't complaim.

Now the Tories have been on the receiving end of the unfairness of the system, they may change their tune.

Maybe we should go for a French style double voting system where the winner has to have more 50% of the vote in one area to become an MP.
asl
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I don't know what Labour's position on PR was - but I suspect they are likewise against it, now!

PR would doubtless result in more hung parliaments, making any legislation difficult.
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Shade
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I think there should be something where, ok, Labour have won the seats that they have won but, with less than 10m votes overall, less than a fifth of the country voting for them, they shouldn’t have all the voting powers that they normally would with such a majority. I don’t know how it would work, just a fleeting thought.

I’m not sure there is a system in the world where everyone is happy?
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Red Duke wrote: 07 Jul 2024, 16:05
Malabus wrote: 05 Jul 2024, 23:47
asl wrote:40% of the British public didn't even vote so they have no right to any opinions, hereafter.

I'm surprised at you, though, Mal: using turnout figures in that way is like admitting that only 25% of the British people voted to leave the EU...
The people who never accepted a 52% win on a 72% turnout are the same people who have accepted they have won even though they got 33% on a 59% turnout.
FPP has been favoured by the Tories as it has enabled them more often than not to stay in power. There was a referendum on Proportional Representation but they didn't support it.

Did you vote in that, Mal? If you didn't you can't complaim.

Now the Tories have been on the receiving end of the unfairness of the system, they may change their tune.

Maybe we should go for a French style double voting system where the winner has to have more 50% of the vote in one area to become an MP.
Referendum was on AV, not PR. It would still have elected constituency MPs as currently, but if no candidate got 50% in the first round of counting the lowest would be discounted and their second preferences added it up - like you point out they do in France.
Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 08 Jul 2024, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote: 05 Jul 2024, 10:54 pertinent given the new Cheltenham MP was / is part of the council. The changes to Central Cross drive (minimal that they are), started on Jan 4th and are still not complete 6 months later. This is the standard of politician we are electing. How depressing.
The Empire State was built in 13 months. Just think in that time, our local politicians could have overseen closing off both ends of Central Cross drive :)
Last I heard Elected Councillors didn’t actually go out and build stuff. Delays will primarily be From contractors, with some responsibility for the local authority procurement team.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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asl wrote: 07 Jul 2024, 16:45 I don't know what Labour's position on PR was - but I suspect they are likewise against it, now!

PR would doubtless result in more hung parliaments, making any legislation difficult.
I personally have never been in favour of PR as a replacement for FPTP.

Problem with PR is that it is completely disconnected from the local electorate. A constituency might have a vote share of 1% for a particular party whilst nationally the party might have 20%. And conversely, they may have 40% share for a different party which nationally only has 5%. I think it would very unfair and undemocratic for that constituency to not have the representation they chose.

Having PR replace the House of Lords would be a good option. Perhaps like the EU elections where we had PR but at a regional level.
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