Darrell Clarke after Stevenage defeat

[Mystified]

That's possibly closer to 'board bashing' than anything I've posted regarding the board... Still looking for those examples...?

ASL, the comment was to Robin, not you.

Hold on where exactly have I had a pop at you? If you count me highlighting the fact that the board are not full time and volunteers and that I believe we would benefit from having some professional accountability (with transparent targets and plans) as board bashing then yes I'm absolutely guilty of that but I defy you to find one post where I've given them grief that would warrant being described as board bashing or abuse.

Robin, you know exactly what I am referring to. Your comment about PB’s preference to go for Matty Taylor would only serve to question his decision making whilst at the Club. The alternative was WE, and you did respond with sarcasm because I dared point that out and suggest that was a bad appointment. The “2nd highest finish ever”, you know it really grates. Up to that point we had been in league 1 only 4 times so the odds are he would be in the top 5 finishers of all of our 125year history. I’d even fancy my own chances of being in the top 5 with those sorts of odds!

[Si Robin]

Now you're just being facetious.

How about, after the 13th September 2022 (game 8) we spent no time at all in the relegation zone? It was also our 6th season in the third tier, so every chance we could have come outside the top 5 highest finishes.

But we didn't end up outside the top 5 finishes, we did better than 4 of the other 5 previous seasons at this level.

[Mystified]

Now you're just being facetious.

How about, after the 13th September 2022 (game 8) we spent no time at all in the relegation zone? It was also our 6th season in the third tier, so every chance we could have come outside the top 5 highest finishes.

But we didn't end up outside the top 5 finishes, we did better than 4 of the other 5 previous seasons at this level.

What are you on about?

you’re going off the point and like some others on here, quite deliberately.

I actually used to enjoy reading views on here but my god, the standards of comment on here are slipping really badly.

[asl]

I'm starting to think Mystified can't tell the difference between me and Robin... I realise we've probably never been seen in the same room at the same time (to the best of my knowledge, we've never met) but, on this forum, it's actually fairly easy to tell us apart. Robin spells his handle 'R-o-b-i-n' while I spell mine 'a-s-l'. So far, I've been accused of something meant for Robin while he's now being accused of sarcasm which, some might say, sounds a teensy bit more like me.

[Si Robin]

You said, and I quote:

"...you could also argue that Paul Bence opted against the actual appointment Wade - and I don’t need to remind you of how that appointment went."

It was pointed out by asl that his appointment was actually quite successful until the board failed him in the summer. Rather than accepting that, you accused asl of board bashing - when you meant Robin.

You've then said:

" The alternative was WE, and you did respond with sarcasm because I dared point that out and suggest that was a bad appointment. The “2nd highest finish ever”, you know it really grates. Up to that point we had been in league 1 only 4 times so the odds are he would be in the top 5 finishers of all of our 125year history. I’d even fancy my own chances of being in the top 5 with those sorts of odds!"

Robin has said nothing about our 2nd highest ever finish - that was asl and myself. I've also pointed out that it wasn't our 4th time in League One, it was actually our 6th season.

You seem to be tying yourself up in knots since making, what I consider, a silly statement that appointing Wade Elliott was a mistake. I will argue that it wasn't and that he was let down by the board not having a plan for when MM left in the summer.

[robinsrule]

Wade did well last season but we really struggled at the start of this year for a multitude of reasons and he was deservedly sacked. Losing Alfie May was one of the main factors (for which some of us blame the board) but DC came in and showed that it was possible to do a better job than Wade with the same squad.

[milestones]

you could also argue that Paul Bence opted against the actual appointment Wade - and I don’t need to remind you of how that appointment went.

Pretty damned well in the first year, unless my memory fails me? Yep...I've just checked the final 2023 League 1 table - it went exceedingly well: and we had our second highest ever finish.

Yes but that was essentially Mike Duff's side - Wade just picked up the reins and held on tight.

[Ihearye]

Do you remember when it was me and RCS

[Mystified]

You said, and I quote:

"...you could also argue that Paul Bence opted against the actual appointment Wade - and I don’t need to remind you of how that appointment went."

It was pointed out by asl that his appointment was actually quite successful until the board failed him in the summer. Rather than accepting that, you accused asl of board bashing - when you meant Robin.

You've then said:

" The alternative was WE, and you did respond with sarcasm because I dared point that out and suggest that was a bad appointment. The “2nd highest finish ever”, you know it really grates. Up to that point we had been in league 1 only 4 times so the odds are he would be in the top 5 finishers of all of our 125year history. I’d even fancy my own chances of being in the top 5 with those sorts of odds!"

Robin has said nothing about our 2nd highest ever finish - that was asl and myself. I've also pointed out that it wasn't our 4th time in League One, it was actually our 6th season.

You seem to be tying yourself up in knots since making, what I consider, a silly statement that appointing Wade Elliott was a mistake. I will argue that it wasn't and that he was let down by the board not having a plan for when MM left in the summer.

I’m guilty of trying to address too many people in one message and it became a smorgasbord of comments but the depressing thing for me to learn that since I questioned Robin’s sincerity regarding a question about a Board member and saying “I don’t need to remind you about how that went” in reference to WE appointment I seem to have upset quite a lot of people. Yet no one was bothered that I thought that the board were in a tough place because of hope DC has given. It’s really bizarre.

[Ihearye]

You said, and I quote:

"...you could also argue that Paul Bence opted against the actual appointment Wade - and I don’t need to remind you of how that appointment went."

It was pointed out by asl that his appointment was actually quite successful until the board failed him in the summer. Rather than accepting that, you accused asl of board bashing - when you meant Robin.

You've then said:

" The alternative was WE, and you did respond with sarcasm because I dared point that out and suggest that was a bad appointment. The “2nd highest finish ever”, you know it really grates. Up to that point we had been in league 1 only 4 times so the odds are he would be in the top 5 finishers of all of our 125year history. I’d even fancy my own chances of being in the top 5 with those sorts of odds!"

Robin has said nothing about our 2nd highest ever finish - that was asl and myself. I've also pointed out that it wasn't our 4th time in League One, it was actually our 6th season.

You seem to be tying yourself up in knots since making, what I consider, a silly statement that appointing Wade Elliott was a mistake. I will argue that it wasn't and that he was let down by the board not having a plan for when MM left in the summer.

I’m guilty of trying to address too many people in one message and it became a smorgasbord of comments but the depressing thing for me to learn that since I questioned Robin’s sincerity regarding a question about a Board member and saying “I don’t need to remind you about how that went” in reference to WE appointment I seem to have upset quite a lot of people. Yet no one was bothered that I thought that the board were in a tough place because of hope DC has given. It’s really bizarre.

It helps from time to time if you suspend reality

[Garby74]

WE was a good coach but a c!#p manager.

It was there for all to see!

Best finish blar blar....nonsense he got lucky and the team found form by shear luck.

It was there for all to see. c!#p football...trying to play out from the back nonsense

His bloody legacy has ceraintly lived on this year.

Here's one for you

WE or DC

[plymrob]

Please, let's put this bed NOW. We can surely rise above belated petty stuff and infighting. Look back on this thread... It's now anal.

New season, new start. That will start with a double please from me to you.

[asl]

Here's one for you

WE or DC

WE or MA?
WE or BG?

Who cares?

Do I think DC is a better manager than WE? Yes, of course I do! Does that make WE a bad manager? No, it really doesn't.

Honestly, there's a couple of posts here that take 'disingenuity' to a whole new level. "WE was lucky cos he had May." So MD wasn't? Or were there ten other players on the pitch?

[milestones]

Here's one for you

WE or DC

WE or MA?
WE or BG?

Who cares?

Do I think DC is a better manager than WE? Yes, of course I do! Does that make WE a bad manager? No, it really doesn't.

Honestly, there's a couple of posts here that take 'disingenuity' to a whole new level. "WE was lucky cos he had May." So MD wasn't? Or were there ten other players on the pitch?

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!
So WE was certainly lucky to inherit him - and the rest of the side that MD brought on.
WE was essentially going along for the ride.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

On Wade; I suspect it was his personality. Your average football fan likes fire, brimstone, optimism and passion from their managers. DC has that in spades.

Wade was quiet, thoughtful, cautious and pessimistic/realistic.

The bar for criticism is much lower for that kind of coach.

With WE it was more to do with the “we are Cheltenham so we are going to get battered a few times this season” attitude. It drove me nuts!

With DC, we have an attitude of we don’t care who you are, we will try to find a way to win.

As you raised an interesting point about characters I thought I’d add I’m also a quiet thoughtful person but no way would I have had the mentality of anything but “we will find a way to win”, and I’m not alone there.

And herein is a big problem. I’m not alone in thinking this. Supporters have the privilege of having a manager with a positive mindset, one that believes they can find a way. The board don’t have the resources or time.

What I believe I am seeing is a very difficult situation in that the mindset of DC and supporters appear to be at odds with that of the board (and even some posters on here in reality). And that is why it must be an impossible job at the moment.

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Do you remember when it was me and RCS

We can reminisce the old times luxuriating in block 7.

[Si Robin]

Here's one for you

WE or DC

WE or MA?
WE or BG?

Who cares?

Do I think DC is a better manager than WE? Yes, of course I do! Does that make WE a bad manager? No, it really doesn't.

Honestly, there's a couple of posts here that take 'disingenuity' to a whole new level. "WE was lucky cos he had May." So MD wasn't? Or were there ten other players on the pitch?

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!
So WE was certainly lucky to inherit him - and the rest of the side that MD brought on.
WE was essentially going along for the ride.

Wow.

I mean.

Wow!!

[Mystified]

On Wade; I suspect it was his personality. Your average football fan likes fire, brimstone, optimism and passion from their managers. DC has that in spades.

Wade was quiet, thoughtful, cautious and pessimistic/realistic.

The bar for criticism is much lower for that kind of coach.

With WE it was more to do with the “we are Cheltenham so we are going to get battered a few times this season” attitude. It drove me nuts!

With DC, we have an attitude of we don’t care who you are, we will try to find a way to win.

As you raised an interesting point about characters I thought I’d add I’m also a quiet thoughtful person but no way would I have had the mentality of anything but “we will find a way to win”, and I’m not alone there.

And herein is a big problem. I’m not alone in thinking this. Supporters have the privilege of having a manager with a positive mindset, one that believes they can find a way. The board don’t have the resources or time.

What I believe I am seeing is a very difficult situation in that the mindset of DC and supporters appear to be at odds with that of the board (and even some posters on here in reality). And that is why it must be an impossible job at the moment.

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

You know I’m referring to attitude and mindset don’t you? The evidence was on the pitch for me.

And I didn’t read the interview from DC saying that “we are going to take a few hits” but I just hope that the “Cheltenham thing” doesn’t turn out to be that of a defeatist club.

[Jim]

On Wade; I suspect it was his personality. Your average football fan likes fire, brimstone, optimism and passion from their managers. DC has that in spades.

Wade was quiet, thoughtful, cautious and pessimistic/realistic.

The bar for criticism is much lower for that kind of coach.

With WE it was more to do with the “we are Cheltenham so we are going to get battered a few times this season” attitude. It drove me nuts!

With DC, we have an attitude of we don’t care who you are, we will try to find a way to win.

As you raised an interesting point about characters I thought I’d add I’m also a quiet thoughtful person but no way would I have had the mentality of anything but “we will find a way to win”, and I’m not alone there.

And herein is a big problem. I’m not alone in thinking this. Supporters have the privilege of having a manager with a positive mindset, one that believes they can find a way. The board don’t have the resources or time.

What I believe I am seeing is a very difficult situation in that the mindset of DC and supporters appear to be at odds with that of the board (and even some posters on here in reality). And that is why it must be an impossible job at the moment.

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

I thought the same thing, I personally don't like the sentiment no matter which manager is saying it or how it's delivered. No team that's earned their right to be in a specific league should expect the odd battering. We know it can happen, even to the 'bigger' clubs, but I find the idea that all managers of Cheltenham think it's par for the course that we take a thrashing every now and again as pretty negative and defeatist.

There's no doubt DC is a great manager at this level and he speaks very well. The players like him and he's very fair - Olayinka for example, after saying he's 'not for me', to row back on that and bring him back into the fold shows he's a bigger man than a lot of managers.

I think he'd be a huge asset in L2 and I really hope he stays on, but he's not above questioning in my opinion, and there's a nagging worry he has a different view on the direction of the club compared to the board - i.e. wanting a 'man's team'. I personally don't want to see an 11 made up of journeymen from DCs little black book next season...

[Ihearye]

Do you remember when it was me and RCS

We can reminisce the old times luxuriating in block 7.

I do actually think that if you can prove you have no social media presence and are over the age of 40 and a home owner, you should be able to bring your drink out to your seat with you on block 7!!!

[asl]

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!

Hang on, wasn't Wade the coach at that time...? I'm confused about the arguments being used, now.

Like so many Facebook 'discussions' I've had the misfortune to get into on CTFC posts, I'm done with this one... There's just no coherence.

[Jerry St Clair]

So, in summary, arguments about the relative merits of any given manager are generated from pre-conceived opinions about that manager that are cast in stone.

If you don’t like Wade, you’ll never be persuaded he was any good. And vice-versa.

[milestones]

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!

Hang on, wasn't Wade the coach at that time...? I'm confused about the arguments being used, now.

Like so many Facebook 'discussions' I've had the misfortune to get into on CTFC posts, I'm done with this one... There's just no coherence.

There's a lot more to being a good and effective manager than just the routine side of coaching.
The wheels came right off when WE had to try and get the players up for the new season. The results don't lie.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

With WE it was more to do with the “we are Cheltenham so we are going to get battered a few times this season” attitude. It drove me nuts!

With DC, we have an attitude of we don’t care who you are, we will try to find a way to win.

As you raised an interesting point about characters I thought I’d add I’m also a quiet thoughtful person but no way would I have had the mentality of anything but “we will find a way to win”, and I’m not alone there.

And herein is a big problem. I’m not alone in thinking this. Supporters have the privilege of having a manager with a positive mindset, one that believes they can find a way. The board don’t have the resources or time.

What I believe I am seeing is a very difficult situation in that the mindset of DC and supporters appear to be at odds with that of the board (and even some posters on here in reality). And that is why it must be an impossible job at the moment.

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

You know I’m referring to attitude and mindset don’t you? The evidence was on the pitch for me.

And I didn’t read the interview from DC saying that “we are going to take a few hits” but I just hope that the “Cheltenham thing” doesn’t turn out to be that of a defeatist club.

Evidence of more wins and goals in Wade’s first season than the season before?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!

Hang on, wasn't Wade the coach at that time...? I'm confused about the arguments being used, now.

Like so many Facebook 'discussions' I've had the misfortune to get into on CTFC posts, I'm done with this one... There's just no coherence.

There's a lot more to being a good and effective manager than just the routine side of coaching.
The wheels came right off when WE had to try and get the players up for the new season. The results don't lie.

Wheels certainly came off in the second season.

Anyone who watched out how we came out the blocks in the first game of Wade’s first season (when we raced 2-0 up against Peterborough) will surely conclude Wade did get the players up for that season?

[Si Robin]

It was mainly Mike Duff who helped to make May the player he is!

Hang on, wasn't Wade the coach at that time...? I'm confused about the arguments being used, now.

Like so many Facebook 'discussions' I've had the misfortune to get into on CTFC posts, I'm done with this one... There's just no coherence.

There's a lot more to being a good and effective manager than just the routine side of coaching.
The wheels came right off when WE had to try and get the players up for the new season. The results don't lie.

You mean when he'd been left with no backroom staff or support from higher up?

As asl has said, we're only going to go around in circles. There are those who will maintain that he should never have been appointed, should have been sacked after the 7-0 against Exeter and definitely sacked after Alvechurch, and there are those who feel he did a decent job in his first season before being shat on from a great height.

No-one argues it went to pot at the start of this past season and that he had run out of ideas, but he was not a bad appointment in the first place. Matt Taylor would have been a bad appointment, and I thank God we dodged that bullet.

[Mystified]

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

You know I’m referring to attitude and mindset don’t you? The evidence was on the pitch for me.

And I didn’t read the interview from DC saying that “we are going to take a few hits” but I just hope that the “Cheltenham thing” doesn’t turn out to be that of a defeatist club.

Evidence of more wins and goals in Wade’s first season than the season before?

DC’s teams win ratio, defensive record and goal scoring record over his 35 or so games was superior to the 22/23 season despite fact that he was inheriting a truly negative and downtrodden side.

Look this thread has died a death a long time ago and I am leaving it there. I’d rather concentrate on giving DC the support he needs because he is a manager I can get behind.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

You know I’m referring to attitude and mindset don’t you? The evidence was on the pitch for me.

And I didn’t read the interview from DC saying that “we are going to take a few hits” but I just hope that the “Cheltenham thing” doesn’t turn out to be that of a defeatist club.

Evidence of more wins and goals in Wade’s first season than the season before?

DC’s teams win ratio, defensive record and goal scoring record over his 35 or so games was superior to the 22/23 season despite fact that he was inheriting a truly negative and downtrodden side.

Look this thread has died a death a long time ago and I am leaving it there. I’d rather concentrate on giving DC the support he needs because he is a manager I can get behind.

Completely agree, as will every fan. Getting DC in was fantastic and turned our season around.

[robinsrule]

On Wade; I suspect it was his personality. Your average football fan likes fire, brimstone, optimism and passion from their managers. DC has that in spades.

Wade was quiet, thoughtful, cautious and pessimistic/realistic.

The bar for criticism is much lower for that kind of coach.

With WE it was more to do with the “we are Cheltenham so we are going to get battered a few times this season” attitude. It drove me nuts!

With DC, we have an attitude of we don’t care who you are, we will try to find a way to win.

As you raised an interesting point about characters I thought I’d add I’m also a quiet thoughtful person but no way would I have had the mentality of anything but “we will find a way to win”, and I’m not alone there.

And herein is a big problem. I’m not alone in thinking this. Supporters have the privilege of having a manager with a positive mindset, one that believes they can find a way. The board don’t have the resources or time.

What I believe I am seeing is a very difficult situation in that the mindset of DC and supporters appear to be at odds with that of the board (and even some posters on here in reality). And that is why it must be an impossible job at the moment.

DC actually said in the last two weeks “Cheltenham Town in League One - we are going to take a few hits.”

So basically the same as Duff, who first used the “we’ll get slapped a few times” phrase and Wade who used the slapped word.

Three managers who all say the same thing and only one gets personal abuse for it…

I personally think that the reason Wade got so much abuse is because we lost 7-0 at home to Exeter in the League Cup and 2-1 to Atherstone in the FA Cup. Yes, he kept us up with relative ease and deserves credit for that, but those bad results are hard to forget.

It’s a bit like Man U going on their little run this season of five 1-0 wins in six league games and Ten Hag pretending that all was rosy…. conveniently forgetting that they finished bottom of their Champions League group.

Some managers somehow escape abuse from fans despite having similarly bad result to their predecessor because it is also about the way they portray themselves to the fans. As someone mentioned a lot of surpoorters want to see fire and brimstone, especially in lower leagues, and DC talks completely honestly about what he expects and (rightly or wrongly) where he expects to see the club and himself in the future.

Let’s hope we can hang on to him.

[Si Robin]

Alvechurch