"poor league this year"

[HamTown]

I've seen that said a few times on here but it just struck me seeing the league 2 table that all the teams relegated from league 1 last year are in the bottom half and I'd be really keen to see the wages and transfer fees spent of the teams around us this year

Food for thought

[Shade]

What defines a poor league? There are big clubs with a lot of money that have snatched up the best players and, therefore, the teams at the top are definitely more dominant against the bottom half. So, it would be a better league if we had fewer big teams in it and more dross, to even things out?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I think on the whole it is a stronger league this season.

The top six are a different level. More so than last year.

MK Dons were third last season, and Oxford 8th. Both now below us. All the promoted sides stayed up last season, and the three smaller ones all struggling this season.

Fleetwood stayed up with 40 points last season. I think teams will go down with more than 40 points this season.

Teams like Crewe and Doncaster were awful last season and had no money, whilst this year’s equivalent, FGR have been spending money for fun in January.

We are running to stand still. Our record signing has contributed to every league goal we have scored whilst he has been on the pitch, which shows without pushing the boat out we would be in the mire.

Even if we ratchet up the on and off pitch quality to become established in L1, most seasons will be a struggle.

Hopefully, after a few years the ridiculous top six clubs will all be back in higher leagues and more normal L1 teams come down from above and we can start thinking of challenging for the playoffs.

[Ihearye]

I think on the whole it is a stronger league this season.

The top six are a different level. More so than last year.

MK Dons were third last season, and Oxford 8th. Both now below us. All the promoted sides stayed up last season, and the three smaller ones all struggling this season.

Fleetwood stayed up with 40 points last season. I think teams will go down with more than 40 points this season.

Teams like Crewe and Doncaster were awful last season and had no money, whilst this year’s equivalent, FGR have been spending money for fun in January.

We are running to stand still. Our record signing has contributed to every league goal we have scored whilst he has been on the pitch, which shows without pushing the boat out we would be in the mire.

Even if we ratchet up the on and off pitch quality to become established in L1, most seasons will be a struggle.

Hopefully, after a few years the ridiculous top six clubs will all be back in higher leagues and more normal L1 teams come down from above and we can start thinking of challenging for the playoffs.

Is the OP not addressing League 2

[longmover]

To have:
Sheffield Wednesday
Ipswich
Bolton
Derby
Charlton
Portsmouth
Barnsley

is a an oddity you'd expect maybe one or two of those teams in the league, tops.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I think on the whole it is a stronger league this season.

The top six are a different level. More so than last year.

MK Dons were third last season, and Oxford 8th. Both now below us. All the promoted sides stayed up last season, and the three smaller ones all struggling this season.

Fleetwood stayed up with 40 points last season. I think teams will go down with more than 40 points this season.

Teams like Crewe and Doncaster were awful last season and had no money, whilst this year’s equivalent, FGR have been spending money for fun in January.

We are running to stand still. Our record signing has contributed to every league goal we have scored whilst he has been on the pitch, which shows without pushing the boat out we would be in the mire.

Even if we ratchet up the on and off pitch quality to become established in L1, most seasons will be a struggle.

Hopefully, after a few years the ridiculous top six clubs will all be back in higher leagues and more normal L1 teams come down from above and we can start thinking of challenging for the playoffs.

Is the OP not addressing League 2

Surely the thread title is talking about L1, otherwise it would be in other footy.

Saying how badly the teams relegated last season are doing is suggesting that L1 is stronger than last season. And referring to the spending by teams around us is highlighting the competitiveness of L1 this season.

[HamTown]

Correct this is what I was getting at RCS

And the teams longmover lists highlights makes a further point about the strength this year

[Ihearye]

Correct this is what I was getting at RCS

And the teams longmover lists highlights makes a further point about the strength this year

Fair enough , then just don't get what league 2 has to do with this year's league one being poor

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Correct this is what I was getting at RCS

And the teams longmover lists highlights makes a further point about the strength this year

Fair enough , then just don't get what league 2 has to do with this year's league one being poor

The L2 table shows how poor last season’s L1 bottom four were. The inference therefore is that this season’s L1 bottom four is stronger. The conclusion; L1 is not a poor league this year, or at least not as poor as last year, especially when considering how much money some of the bottom sides in L1 have spent.

[CTFC.Harry]

Most football supporters have never kicked a ball and sometimes it shows.

[HamTown]

Most football supporters have never kicked a ball and sometimes it shows.

Wheres it showing?

[shevates]

Those clubs above mentioned
Sheffield Wednesday
Ipswich
Bolton
Derby
Charlton
Portsmouth
Barnsley

Are way above most clubs in this division due to support and finances, but I believe it is a poir league this season, when we play teams at our standard theyve been poor quality games I feel.

[Si Robin]

We seem to hear this phrase every year to be honest, regardless of whatever league we're in. And I don't mean just from Cheltenham fans, but from fans of other clubs as well.

What would constitute a league that isn't poor?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

We seem to hear this phrase every year to be honest, regardless of whatever league we're in. And I don't mean just from Cheltenham fans, but from fans of other clubs as well.

What would constitute a league that isn't poor?

I reckon it’s the same fans from most clubs who want the manager sacked/think the squad is too weak which seems to be most teams.

By convincing themselves the league is poor, when they survive/get to play offs/get promoted they can say ‘but it was just a poor league’ and don’t need to give credit to the manager or players.

Most football games at all levels are boring most of the time, unless you have a preference for one of the two teams in which case even a dire boring game is full of tension, jeopardy and despair or joy.

That’s why football and gambling go hand in hand. Palace vs Wolves in a boring 0-0 is meaningless to most football fans. So football promotes gambling, then people gamble, and then people have a vested interest in the game so pay to watch it, and see more gambling adverts and so on.

So I don’t think anyone could articulate what constitutes a league which isn’t poor.

[Robin]

The fate of the four relegated teams doesn't necessarily mean this is a poor league. Donny and Crewe were both in a right state last year having lost a ton of key personnel which was reflected in their points total. Neither of these sides have much money hence when they dropped down they could not throw cash at a rebuild so needed to turn things around more gradually much as I suspect we would if relegated in the future.

Gillingham were a bit of a mess off the field and again had zero money until the latest American investment group has come in waving cash. Wimbledon were the exception I feel and did have some money by league two standards yet have fallen short of an immediate bounce back.

Either way this year there only appears to be one really bad team (FGR) then a handful of teams of reasonably similar standard, followed by a group who have a bit more quality (like us last season) and another group who have Championship level money behind them and can offer players big wages.

[Chris FGR]

Can’t tell if it’s a poor league, as compared to us everyone looks like Man City.

We managed to spend money in January that actually weakened our squad, which is some achievement.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I think on average the overall standard of the division this year is pretty much the same as last but what has changed is the overall dynamic.

Last year there were probably 8-10 clubs that could be argued as 'Championship ready' whereas this year it seems there are probably only 6, but to offset that, where there were 4 bad teams last year we only really have FGR who are struggling big time hence the bigger amount of mid table mediocrity. Hence overall the quality is the same.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I think on average the overall standard of the division this year is pretty much the same as last but what has changed is the overall dynamic.

Last year there were probably 8-10 clubs that could be argued as 'Championship ready' whereas this year it seems there are probably only 6, but to offset that, where there were 4 bad teams last year we only really have FGR who are struggling big time hence the bigger amount of mid table mediocrity. Hence overall the quality is the same.

And pertinent for us, the fact there are fewer down and and outs, and more mid tablers means the competition for survival is tougher.

[Robin]

Can’t tell if it’s a poor league, as compared to us everyone looks like Man City.

We managed to spend money in January that actually weakened our squad, which is some achievement.

What's the deal with your record signing Chris, £300k is a huge investment yet he doesn't seem to be playing much. Will you have to off load a few if you go down?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Can’t tell if it’s a poor league, as compared to us everyone looks like Man City.

We managed to spend money in January that actually weakened our squad, which is some achievement.

What's the deal with your record signing Chris, £300k is a huge investment yet he doesn't seem to be playing much. Will you have to off load a few if you go down?

Vince will find a way to keep paying them. Will get another inflated sponsorship deal from a third party to get round SCMP regs.

[Chris FGR]

What's the deal with your record signing Chris, £300k is a huge investment yet he doesn't seem to be playing much. Will you have to off load a few if you go down?

He's out for the season but even before that he wasn't getting much playing time, possibly doesn't fit Big Dunc's preferred player type (he says he wants big physical types), always a problem when you rebuild a squad and then replace the manager I guess.

We will off load quite a few I reckon, yes, if we can find any takers.

[slinky_dog]

I don’t really get the logic of listing those ‘big teams’. If they were all in the championship, then a load of existing championship teams would be in league 1

Currently, bottom of championship is
Birmingham
Reading
Swansea
QPR
Rotherham
Cardiff
Huddersfield
Blackpool
Wigan

I consider most of those ‘big’. Ultimately there will always be teams in league 1 who, based on size of fan base and past success feel like big teams.

If we are ever going to compete, we need an average gate to be 8,000 which is tough given catchment area, even if the ground was developed to accommodate them.

[Robin]

I don’t really get the logic of listing those ‘big teams’. If they were all in the championship, then a load of existing championship teams would be in league 1

Currently, bottom of championship is
Birmingham
Reading
Swansea
QPR
Rotherham
Cardiff
Huddersfield
Blackpool
Wigan

I consider most of those ‘big’. Ultimately there will always be teams in league 1 who, based on size of fan base and past success feel like big teams.

If we are ever going to compete, we need an average gate to be 8,000 which is tough given catchment area, even if the ground was developed to accommodate them.

Our catchment area is arguably bigger than say Shrewsbury and Exeter who are both averaging in excess of 6000. Even Wycombe another similar sort of club are averaging 5400 compared to our 4300. Definitely room for growth our end.

If and when the new stand is finally built we really should be attracting 5000+ in this league.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I don’t really get the logic of listing those ‘big teams’. If they were all in the championship, then a load of existing championship teams would be in league 1

Currently, bottom of championship is
Birmingham
Reading
Swansea
QPR
Rotherham
Cardiff
Huddersfield
Blackpool
Wigan

I consider most of those ‘big’. Ultimately there will always be teams in league 1 who, based on size of fan base and past success feel like big teams.

If we are ever going to compete, we need an average gate to be 8,000 which is tough given catchment area, even if the ground was developed to accommodate them.

Our catchment area is arguably bigger than say Shrewsbury and Exeter who are both averaging in excess of 6000. Even Wycombe another similar sort of club are averaging 5400 compared to our 4300. Definitely room for growth our end.

If and when the new stand is finally built we really should be attracting 5000+ in this league.

I think we would be if we had more seats and better facilities.

[Robin]

Yes I agree, bigger away end too is absolute must, would hope for an extra 700-1000 on the average gate once the new stand is eventually built.

[Shade]

Crowds would undoubtedly go up if we are in L1, playing ok, and the PRE and Main Stand were in improved/rebuilt and the facilities were better. It's got to be the next step, been talked about for ages and the board have to be looking at every possibility to get it done. I know it's unlikely to happen any time soon but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be top of the list and all options constantly explored.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Crowds would undoubtedly go up if we are in L1, playing ok, and the PRE and Main Stand were in improved/rebuilt and the facilities were better. It's got to be the next step, been talked about for ages and the board have to be looking at every possibility to get it done. I know it's unlikely to happen any time soon but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be top of the list and all options constantly explored.

Hypothetically, if a fan won £150 million on Euromillions and said to club “here’s £50m for a new stand or stadium” would you rather try and redevelop Whaddon Road, or build a new build somewhere else?

[Shade]

Crowds would undoubtedly go up if we are in L1, playing ok, and the PRE and Main Stand were in improved/rebuilt and the facilities were better. It's got to be the next step, been talked about for ages and the board have to be looking at every possibility to get it done. I know it's unlikely to happen any time soon but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be top of the list and all options constantly explored.

Hypothetically, if a fan won £150 million on Euromillions and said to club “here’s £50m for a new stand or stadium” would you rather try and redevelop Whaddon Road, or build a new build somewhere else?

Me personally, with £50m, it'd have to be a new stadium because it should propel the club well and truly to the next level, as sad as I'd be to leave Whaddon Road. Part of being a CTFC fan is the soul of Whaddon Rd.

However, for £50m, could probably completely redevelop WR as well to a level that could sustain top L1 and Championship football. Would be enough certainly to sort out behind the PRE and build on that, bung the council to finally sort out Cakebridge Place, build a new multi-purpose main stand, and improve the area around the stadium, for the club and local community, I'd have thought. But if we were to have designs for becoming a Championship club one day, I think it would still have to be a new stadium.

I didn't know until seeing a video the other day that York left Bootham Crescent a year or two ago and now play in a new stadium attached to a leisure complex housing a cinema, gym, restaurants, etc, stadium sharing with a rugby league team. A bit like a mini MK. If we do ever move to a new ground, would you want it somewhere like that, with us owning the site and renting the units to restaurants, etc? But with The Brewery in Chelt and The Quays in Gloucester, would there be a need for it anyway?

[asl]

Not being funny,but has that new stadium you describe "propelled York to the Next Level"...?

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[Shade]

Not being funny,but has that new stadium you describe "propelled York to the Next Level"...?

Sent from my SM-G9860 using Tapatalk

No, but they don't own the site and have income from renting out rooms/units, etc. As far as I'm aware.

[Shade]

Just checked, council owned multi-purpose, shared community stadium. I'm talking about a £50m fully CTFC owned stadium/site. We have seen teams in L2, L1 get new stadiums that they own that are now steady Championship and Prem clubs. Or L1- Champ yoyo clubs like Rotherham.

[Robin]

With £50 million we could build a 20,000 seat multi-purpose stadium but with £150million I'd rather spend £5-6 million to buy cakebridge place and build a 4000 capacity stand that would be fine for us.

[Si Robin]

Not being funny,but has that new stadium you describe "propelled York to the Next Level"...?

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Technically it did - they were in National League North when they moved in there, and got promoted in their first season.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Just checked, council owned multi-purpose, shared community stadium. I'm talking about a £50m fully CTFC owned stadium/site. We have seen teams in L2, L1 get new stadiums that they own that are now steady Championship and Prem clubs. Or L1- Champ yoyo clubs like Rotherham.

Rotherham’s stadium is one of the best examples of sport-led urban regeneration developments.

I think I’d go for a redevelopment of WR, purely because I can’t think of any other good sites close to the town centre and an out of town stadium is not what we need. (I still think the site where the Waitrose development in town is would have been perfect).

With £50m we could sort out Parklands and Cakebridge, and build the bowling club a fantastic new green and club directly opposite on Whaddon Rec (as well as other community stuff over there).

Then in the main stadium development probably a hotel (MK have a Doubletree by Hilton in the stadium which has views over the pitch from some of it), a gym and some office/coworking/commercial space with hospitality outlets (day and evening 7-day venues) plus replacement community hub and facilities for Parklands and other things like that.

We’d probably have to get rid of the 3-4 houses right by the Colin Farmer. The problem will be the rather nice massive house on Prestbury Rd accessed via the Cakebridge Place turning. We’d probably have to only have access via Whaddon Rd (no problem with 360 degree access around a new stadium) rather than sending people passed their driveway, although we should be able to have a different walking/cycling route through from Prestbury Rd which doesn’t go past their driveway.

The only other site I can see is the industrial area between Tesco and Homebase but the businesses in there would have to be given somewhere else to go.

Obviously all pie in the sky but it is nice to dream!

[robinsrule]

I don’t really get the logic of listing those ‘big teams’. If they were all in the championship, then a load of existing championship teams would be in league 1

Currently, bottom of championship is
Birmingham
Reading
Swansea
QPR
Rotherham
Cardiff
Huddersfield
Blackpool
Wigan

I consider most of those ‘big’. Ultimately there will always be teams in league 1 who, based on size of fan base and past success feel like big teams.

If we are ever going to compete, we need an average gate to be 8,000 which is tough given catchment area, even if the ground was developed to accommodate them.

Rotherham, Blackpool and Wigan would all average under 10,000 in League 1 so they are smaller than all the clubs currently occupying the top six of the league.