Cheltenham Town v Carlisle United

[Robin]

Whilst on the subject of strikers I thought the abuse nuttall received last night was well out of line.
Our club refused to reinvest the goodwin fee properly and ended up loaning a conference striker,have a go at the board not the player.

Embarrassing how many jeers and sarcastic cheers you could hear on ifollow. They all performed badly yesterday but singling one man out for abuse is just idiotic

Yeh, especially when he had actually won some headers and had held it up and shown some footwork but had no one near him in support.

Not what the team needs from fans in the last five games. Booing your own players during crucial games in a run-in is pretty dumb.

When did he do that? I must have missed it totally, I remember him pulling out of a challenge at least once in the first half. He probably wasn't the worst player but it his body language and lack of ability were clear he isn't contributing enough.

[Robin]

A poor result and another poor game of football we've seen this season despite win or lose.

Despite being in L1, feels like the amount of competitive games we've seen down WR have been severely limited other than Wigan, Reading, Oxford, Port Vale and Portsmouth. There will be a good handful of clubs who avoid relegation this season despite being abysmal; Shrewsbury, Cambridge and Wycombe come to mind. Most games have really been decided by the other been being deservedly poor, excluding us giving away penalties or poor (terrible) referees.

It seems relegation will be decided out of some of the worst teams L1 has seen and if we lose Saturday, the concern should be how on earth we will survive a very competitive L2.

Has always been my fear with the amount of money sloshing around

Accrington and Morecambe have coped well on what you'd imagine are smaller budgets than we will have. FGR have a big budget but I struggled much more due to issues elsewhere. I doubt we would set the world alight but we shouldn't be in threat of relegation if Clarke stays. Prior relegations have also seen us drop and finish mid-table and stabilse but whether Clarke will be happy with that I'm not convinced.

[Si Robin]

We've been relegated twice from this division. The first time we were going straight down until Gould walked and Wardy stabilised us - eventually pushing us up to midtable. The second time we survived relegation on the last day of the season (albeit other results needed to go against us).

Your comment about Nuttall's body language is a complete cop out as well. He didn't look languid to me. His lack of ability shouldn't warrant him getting grief. It's not his fault he was played as a target man when he evidently isn't one. As for contributing - he's been directly involved in 2 of our last 3 goals.

[triggo]

Completely agree about the ironic cheers.
he was no better or no worse than the other ten.
Undermine your own players confidence ... great tactic ... Idiots

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Embarrassing how many jeers and sarcastic cheers you could hear on ifollow. They all performed badly yesterday but singling one man out for abuse is just idiotic

Yeh, especially when he had actually won some headers and had held it up and shown some footwork but had no one near him in support.

Not what the team needs from fans in the last five games. Booing your own players during crucial games in a run-in is pretty dumb.

When did he do that? I must have missed it totally, I remember him pulling out of a challenge at least once in the first half. He probably wasn't the worst player but it his body language and lack of ability were clear he isn't contributing enough.

You obviously did miss it. Was clear as day on ifollow. Some of his driving runs and general play didn’t suggest poor body language to me. He also made a great run into space for a tap-in but Thomas shot rather than squaring.

Granted, if you are behind the goal you can’t really tell what’s happening compared to people watching on ifollow.

[horlickfanclub]

We started with 3 up front yesterday Horlick and none of them looked like they knew how to play with each other. Harrop was lost so started coming to the wing to get the ball, Thomas was double marked and looked like a kid in mens football whilst whilst Nuttall didn't win a header or a flick on to the other two from what I recall.

Read my post Robin. Nuttall was on his own with the others wide.

[horlickfanclub]

I was at the game.

The ironic jeers he received were in in sarcastic jest.

One of the tallest and most athletic players on the pitch only won 2 headers...both unopposed.

My 14 year old daughter would best him in the air.

I became frustrated too...when he stopped jumping!

He won more than two headers and booing and "sarcastic jest" is appalling from so called supporters.

[horlickfanclub]

Whilst on the subject of strikers I thought the abuse nuttall received last night was well out of line.
Our club refused to reinvest the goodwin fee properly and ended up loaning a conference striker,have a go at the board not the player.

Aidan Keena - one goal all season, posed no goal threat - lauded, applauded, name sung to the rafters.

Joe Nuttall - one goal all season, posed no goal threat - sarcastically mocked, substitution cheered.

Go figure. Football fans, eh?

Not fans really.

[horlickfanclub]

I was at the game.

The ironic jeers he received were in in sarcastic jest.

One of the tallest and most athletic players on the pitch only won 2 headers...both unopposed.

My 14 year old daughter would best him in the air.

I became frustrated too...when he stopped jumping!

We all like to be melodramatic, but he definitely won more than 2 headers.

Just because he is tall, does not mean he's a) good at jumping or b) good at heading. Kion Etete is 6ft 6in and I think he won one header in his whole time here. Not once did he get a sarcastic jeer in jest when he won it.

What Nuttall got on Tuesday was nothing short of abuse - and I was also at the game. At least he actually had a go. At one point in the first half everyone shouted for him to shoot. After blasting it over the very same people then started getting on his case about shooting.

Well put Si.

Agree with Jerry as well, whilst it is commendable that Aidan is still getting fully backed after the season he's had, why is he still being backed to the rafters when he's achieved nothing more than Nuttall in three times the amount of games? By the same token, why is Nuttall being singled out?

He's not a very good player, by any stretch of the imagination, but that's not his fault. It's also not his fault when he's been played as target man and it goes against everything he might be good at.

[Robin]

We've been relegated twice from this division. The first time we were going straight down until Gould walked and Wardy stabilised us - eventually pushing us up to midtable. The second time we survived relegation on the last day of the season (albeit other results needed to go against us).

Your comment about Nuttall's body language is a complete cop out as well. He didn't look languid to me. His lack of ability shouldn't warrant him getting grief. It's not his fault he was played as a target man when he evidently isn't one. As for contributing - he's been directly involved in 2 of our last 3 goals.

Why is it a cop out? I didn't say he deserved the abuse only that I believe that's what is contribute towards it, people clearly feel he's lazy AND not good enough. The problem for me is what is he then if not a target man as he doesn't have the pace or mobility to stretch a defence. Do we think he's more of a finisher? Someone mentioned Kion Etete he would be perfect for us because he could do the role we need, that's the type of player we are missing.

[Robin]

Yeh, especially when he had actually won some headers and had held it up and shown some footwork but had no one near him in support.

Not what the team needs from fans in the last five games. Booing your own players during crucial games in a run-in is pretty dumb.

When did he do that? I must have missed it totally, I remember him pulling out of a challenge at least once in the first half. He probably wasn't the worst player but it his body language and lack of ability were clear he isn't contributing enough.

You obviously did miss it. Was clear as day on ifollow. Some of his driving runs and general play didn’t suggest poor body language to me. He also made a great run into space for a tap-in but Thomas shot rather than squaring.

Granted, if you are behind the goal you can’t really tell what’s happening compared to people watching on ifollow.

So why do you feel he was pretty widely booed and heckled then and it wasn't small numbers or one part of the ground either. All I heard were people complaining about his lack of effort and non-ability to win headers. I'm sure some of it comes from the fact he was signed from non-league and people feel it's a cheap option (which Si Robin has already explained is not the case).

[Garby74]

I find it very strange to get in a target man that can't jump or can't head!

Maybe he's good at making daisy chains.

WTF

If all our strikers are clearly usless why can't DC at least give King half an hour?

Before we swap him for more Nuts!

[MacRobin]

I have held off posting since Tuesday night because it was such a disappointment in every way. The ground seemed flat before kick off and the night got worse from there.

We have an honest manager. DC admitted he got it wrong. He changed too many things; shape, personnel and roles. From the moment Thomas lined up for the kick off on the right hand side I was worried. It was the kid’s first start - he needed simplicity and clarity and to be able to do the things that have got people excited. Playing as a right-sided ‘10’ was just one of many square pegs in round holes. Harrop deserved a start - however left-sided ‘10’ is not his strength. Kinsella is so right footed that he has to play centrally or on the right but again he was on the opposite side. Finally, it’s clear Nuttell cannot operate as a sole striker at this level. He doesn’t have the presence or capability to occupy defenders.

When you see three or four experienced players constantly looking to the bench on the first 20 minutes you know that the plan is neither understood or working.

We have to forget about that match immediately. Against Rovers we must go back to what we know i.e. 3-5-2. If Freestone’s fit I’d bring him back in alongside Bradbury and Davies with Longy and Fez (if fit) as the wing backs.

Pett has been a shadow of the player we saw earlier in the season and whether it’s down to fitness or form he doesn’t merit a place based on the last four or five games. For me, Kinsella holding with Sercombe and Harrop in front offers the best creative option in behind Keena and Lloyd. That’s assuming Lloydy hasn’t had a reaction in his tendon to playing the other night. If we can get 70 mins out of him and then use Nuttell or ideally Taylor that has to be the way to go.

Pardington, Williams, Taylor, Bonds, Nuttell, Thomas and Shepherd would be my bench.

This is not beyond us, but four points from the next two games is the absolute minimum requirement and realistically I think we need six.

I have faith in DC mostly due to his honesty. He will put the blame for Tuesday on himself but the players need to repay him and us on Saturday as I expect us to be set up with a game plan built on simplicity and very clear roles.

We also have a role to play that is clear - get behind the boys. All of them!

[Shade]

I'd just have Kinsella or Bonds holding, with Sercombe and Harrop buzzing in and around behind the "strikers", one or t'other dropping deep to get the ball when necessary. The Gas haven't scored for 8 games, do we need 2 holding defenders in front of 3 centre backs?

We need goals... It really is the far end of s#!t or bust. Play the entire game like it's the final 5 minutes. Then again, judging by the urgency displayed on Tuesday night, that won't mean much to them, judging by the way most of them were walking or jogging around and Southwood wasn't exactly hurrying himself to get the ball up the pitch.

[Si Robin]

When did he do that? I must have missed it totally, I remember him pulling out of a challenge at least once in the first half. He probably wasn't the worst player but it his body language and lack of ability were clear he isn't contributing enough.

You obviously did miss it. Was clear as day on ifollow. Some of his driving runs and general play didn’t suggest poor body language to me. He also made a great run into space for a tap-in but Thomas shot rather than squaring.

Granted, if you are behind the goal you can’t really tell what’s happening compared to people watching on ifollow.

So why do you feel he was pretty widely booed and heckled then and it wasn't small numbers or one part of the ground either. All I heard were people complaining about his lack of effort and non-ability to win headers. I'm sure some of it comes from the fact he was signed from non-league and people feel it's a cheap option (which Si Robin has already explained is not the case).

I've not explained that's not the case. In fact, for us at the moment, I believe he is quite cheap. We're currently paying 20% of his salary. Should he become available in the summer though (if Oldham let him go) then no he wouldn't be a cheap option.

You seem to believe there was a lack of effort. I vehemently disagree. You claim his body language suggested he's lazy - I disagree again. People were booing and heckling because they see a big player and immediately assume he's going to be good in the air. As such, because he isn't, and because he's big, he can't possibly be good with the ball at his feet so he must be rubbish. Put that with your nonsense about his body language then you've got a lazy player who isn't good enough and therefore apparently deserves to be jeered (note: I know you have said he doesn't deserve it - just pointing out that some people have).

Garby74 has again referred to him as a target man. Who decided he was a target man? If it was DC, then he couldn't have got it more wrong. If it's because the ball was being launched up to him, DC said in his post-match interview that wasn't the tactics he'd instructed - to quote:

We went out with a plan in the first half, to get the ball down and get it to Jordan (Thomas) and Josh (Harrop), look after the ball and get after them

Ultimately, Tuesday needed a scapegoat and because he's not the best player, and was up front on his own (with Harrop and Thomas being anonymous after the first 10 mins) he was the obvious option. Ignore that he actually did win a few headers and battles, that he had our only really meaningful shot on goal - which he created himself - he's a big man who can't jump so let's get on his back rather than offering him the same support we've offered another player who's got the same stat-line in three times the amount of games.

[Garby74]

Nuttall was not the scape goat for Tuesday far from it.

I think he's improving.

The entire team served that one up.

Let's be honest though DC has been playing the percentages for quite a few games with the diagonal ball nonsense....that produces very little. One would assume on that basis hes considered a target man.
We're far more effective on the deck.

Gotta prey Fez is fit Saturday.

[Ihearye]

If we find ourselves drinking in the last chance saloon with 20 minutes to go, I wouldn't be averse to putting Shepherd up front. He looks like he has something about him, enjoys having the ball at his feet or head, doesn't mind running at people and has a strike rate to match any of our currently fit strike force.

[plymrob]

Si Robin... Good observations above. On the whole I thought Nutall did OK. For me, inspite of the Radio Glos praise for it, I thought the big tactical change for this game was wrong. Second half better - BUT we do know (of old) finding the goal, and/or better still scoring one, is generally hard work and nigh-on impossible for CTFC.

[plymrob]

Best apologise straight away for getting his name wrong! I do read on here and know what really matters.

[Shade]

Something else that popped into my head; if this game had been played when it was scheduled, it would have almost certainly been 3 points to us. We'd just beaten Portsmouth at home and were playing well. It seems like even when we have played well this season, everything else has gone against us, be it the weather, injuries or the refs.

If we do somehow still get out of this pickle and get another season in League 1, it will be the biggest miracle since OJ was acquitted. It might also possibly be as big of an injustice